Electric towed

[BobK53]

Our next towed will probably be an electric car. We are considering a Nissan Leaf or a Tesla Model 3 (if it ever comes out and is actually cheaper than the Model S). Has anyone on the forum ever towed an electric car? I ask that because our current car is a Subaru Forester that must be towed on a trailer. No wheels can be on the ground. I would rather now have to haul a trailer everywhere I go. It can be a real pain in many RV parks. A Subaru with a standard transmission can be towed four flat, but not one with an automatic transmission.
Can an EV be towed four flat?

[John___Angela]

Just to update an old thread. We have been driving our little EV for about a year now. Best car we have ever owned and crazy cheap to run. Couple things. The car is a few hundred pounds heavier than its predecessor so a little heavier on the trailer. Monitoring this as it is close to the trailer capacity.

We are finding very little need to charge anywhere but home although we have been noticing more charging stations showing up in the area. Also noticed more showing up everywhere else which may be handy when travelling.

We have occasionally found ourselves in need of faster charging capabilities at home so we are going to spend a few hundred bucks and get a 220 6.6 KW EVSE CHARGER PORT for the garage. This will also be handy for the second EV we will probably get to replace our last oil burner in the next couple years. We can presently charge at 3.3 on our little ED but we are thinking ahead as most now seem to have 6.6KW charging.

During the heat of the summer the AC tends to cut our range by about 20 percent. Not a big deal for us as we rarely need more than half our range but for those with longer commutes it is a consideration.

All that power makes you want to use it which also translates to reduced range. Lesson here is just like an oil burner, drive nice and you'll go further on a "tank".

We only charge two or three times a week but it is REALLY important to check if you are still hooked up EVERY TIME. We haven't done it yet (don't actually know if it would) but we have come close a few times. ??

Still getting use to no oil changes. Have filled up my washer fluid twice though.

Would love to hear from other RVers who have made the jump to full electric. Be brand specific as we are narrowing the field for second EV.

[John___Angela]

Our winter home in Palm Springs has a weekend fair area called college of the desert. An actual college where much of the parking is covered in large solar arrays to provide shade and of course produce lots of power. I've often wondered if they started to charge more for their parking and display areas now that it is covered. Too funny.

We are going to closely monitor our driving needs over the next 4 years to determine wether we can make use of a second EV even with limited range of say around 140 miles. We were both trying to remember a trip that was farther away than that where we didn't take the motorhome and can't recall a single one. Now that we have one EV we are kinda hooked. I think we are probably around 4 years from replacing our other CDI diesel smart with another EV. We thought about going 4 seats next time but again, can't really think of a time in the last 8 years of driving a smart car where we needed more than two seats so we may just go with the next generation smart electric drive. Time will tell.

[SRockwood]

John & Angela wrote:

SRockwood wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
We specifically prohibit charging of electric vehicles. No campground's electrical system is designed to handle both the load of a 50 amp RV and the load created by charging an electric vehicle. Multiple units on an electrical loop would quickly trip the main breakers cutting power to all the rigs on the loop.
Today, electric cars are not much more than a curiosity piece. If the manufacturers ever want them to become mainstream, one thing they are going to have to do is come up with a recharging infrastructure that does not rely on the goodness of others. No one expects an RV park to fuel up their diesel pickup tow vehicle or their Honda CRV toad and it shouldn't fall upon the parks to fuel up someone's electric car.

Or, you could turn a profit on it:

Require that all EV owners plug their cars into their coaches. This will keep them under the 50a limit and within your infrastructure's initial design considerations. Keep in mind that someone with a strong desktop computer will draw about 3-4a continuously and as much as 15a for short periods. Most 110v chargers on EVs draw around 7-10a as they were designed for regular outlets.

To help out on the money side of things, charge patrons a nominal fee ($3-5?) per electric vehicle per day on top of their usual reservation rates. Of the "normal" EVs out there (not the $100k+ Teslas, etc), the Nissan Leaf has the largest battery at 24kwH. At $0.18/kwH, if all of your EV patrons completely drained their Leaf batteries to nothing every single day (highly unlikely, as it would require a software change AND would murder that battery in no time), you'd still turn a profit of $0.68/day if you charged $5. Bonus is you wouldn't need to turn patrons away or listen to generators so they could charge it on their own dime. Since most people will only discharge the battery to about 50% (the EV considers the the battery nearly dead at about 70-80% depending on manufacturer), you'd turn a profit of about $2-3 per day for EVs on your lot.

Currently, I assume you don't get anything for gasoline-powered vehicles unless you have a gas station on site as well, so EVs = $$$ for you if you take advantage of it.

You know thats kinda of a cool idea. Advertise it as EV friendly etc. I'd pay a few bucks for the convenience. Most major centres have lots of level 2 charging facilities now but smaller centres not so much. Maybe there is a market there.

Yep, and if he has enough electrical load (from all sources, not just cars) to the point where he's donating large sums of money to Sempra Utilities, one could lease a solar array for about $0.10-0.15 per kwH. One of the local campgrounds in East San Diego County advertises covered RV storage. The covers? Solar panels on raised arrays. Charge a premium for covered storage AND you can reduce your electric bill from your existing guests. Win! 🙂

[John___Angela]

SRockwood wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
We specifically prohibit charging of electric vehicles. No campground's electrical system is designed to handle both the load of a 50 amp RV and the load created by charging an electric vehicle. Multiple units on an electrical loop would quickly trip the main breakers cutting power to all the rigs on the loop.
Today, electric cars are not much more than a curiosity piece. If the manufacturers ever want them to become mainstream, one thing they are going to have to do is come up with a recharging infrastructure that does not rely on the goodness of others. No one expects an RV park to fuel up their diesel pickup tow vehicle or their Honda CRV toad and it shouldn't fall upon the parks to fuel up someone's electric car.

Or, you could turn a profit on it:

Require that all EV owners plug their cars into their coaches. This will keep them under the 50a limit and within your infrastructure's initial design considerations. Keep in mind that someone with a strong desktop computer will draw about 3-4a continuously and as much as 15a for short periods. Most 110v chargers on EVs draw around 7-10a as they were designed for regular outlets.

To help out on the money side of things, charge patrons a nominal fee ($3-5?) per electric vehicle per day on top of their usual reservation rates. Of the "normal" EVs out there (not the $100k+ Teslas, etc), the Nissan Leaf has the largest battery at 24kwH. At $0.18/kwH, if all of your EV patrons completely drained their Leaf batteries to nothing every single day (highly unlikely, as it would require a software change AND would murder that battery in no time), you'd still turn a profit of $0.68/day if you charged $5. Bonus is you wouldn't need to turn patrons away or listen to generators so they could charge it on their own dime. Since most people will only discharge the battery to about 50% (the EV considers the the battery nearly dead at about 70-80% depending on manufacturer), you'd turn a profit of about $2-3 per day for EVs on your lot.

Currently, I assume you don't get anything for gasoline-powered vehicles unless you have a gas station on site as well, so EVs = $$$ for you if you take advantage of it.

You know thats kinda of a cool idea. Advertise it as EV friendly etc. I'd pay a few bucks for the convenience. Most major centres have lots of level 2 charging facilities now but smaller centres not so much. Maybe there is a market there.

[SRockwood]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
We specifically prohibit charging of electric vehicles. No campground's electrical system is designed to handle both the load of a 50 amp RV and the load created by charging an electric vehicle. Multiple units on an electrical loop would quickly trip the main breakers cutting power to all the rigs on the loop.
Today, electric cars are not much more than a curiosity piece. If the manufacturers ever want them to become mainstream, one thing they are going to have to do is come up with a recharging infrastructure that does not rely on the goodness of others. No one expects an RV park to fuel up their diesel pickup tow vehicle or their Honda CRV toad and it shouldn't fall upon the parks to fuel up someone's electric car.

Or, you could turn a profit on it:

Require that all EV owners plug their cars into their coaches. This will keep them under the 50a limit and within your infrastructure's initial design considerations. Keep in mind that someone with a strong desktop computer will draw about 3-4a continuously and as much as 15a for short periods. Most 110v chargers on EVs draw around 7-10a as they were designed for regular outlets.

To help out on the money side of things, charge patrons a nominal fee ($3-5?) per electric vehicle per day on top of their usual reservation rates. Of the "normal" EVs out there (not the $100k+ Teslas, etc), the Nissan Leaf has the largest battery at 24kwH. At $0.18/kwH, if all of your EV patrons completely drained their Leaf batteries to nothing every single day (highly unlikely, as it would require a software change AND would murder that battery in no time), you'd still turn a profit of $0.68/day if you charged $5. Bonus is you wouldn't need to turn patrons away or listen to generators so they could charge it on their own dime. Since most people will only discharge the battery to about 50% (the EV considers the the battery nearly dead at about 70-80% depending on manufacturer), you'd turn a profit of about $2-3 per day for EVs on your lot.

Currently, I assume you don't get anything for gasoline-powered vehicles unless you have a gas station on site as well, so EVs = $$$ for you if you take advantage of it.

[John___Angela]

jimbo98 wrote:
That is a sweet ride. Congratulations. I have been using Plugshare.com and its phone app to find quick charging stations around the city. It shows Level 2 and 3 charging stations on a map and users rate them and post pictures. Great for planning trips that require a charge.
Can you tow your smart car on all four tires or do you trailer it?

We trailer it. We have always trailered our smarts and we will be trailering this one as well. Plug share is an awesome app. We added our charging station to it as well just in case someone needs a little boost.

Enjoy the ride.

🙂

[jimbo98]

That is a sweet ride. Congratulations. I have been using Plugshare.com and its phone app to find quick charging stations around the city. It shows Level 2 and 3 charging stations on a map and users rate them and post pictures. Great for planning trips that require a charge.
Can you tow your smart car on all four tires or do you trailer it?

[John___Angela]

jimbo98 wrote:
We just bought a used 2012 Mitsubishi I-MiEV SE full electric car with 5700 miles. It has a 62 mile range on a full charge, perfect for going in to town to run errands. Charges easily on a 120V plug drawing about 8 amps which gives it a full charge in 20 hours. The car is so easy to park. It does need to be towed on a trailer. Cant tow it on the rear wheels, which are the drive wheels. The car weighs about 2500 lbs, so even with a small trailer, it can be towed by my Itasca Navion (3500 lb. limit) I don't see any issue regarding over loading RV park electrical systems. It is a minor current draw compared to what RV's draw for running A/C's, lights, battery charging.
The best part is the cost savings. No more paying for gas, oil changes, maintenance. Less than $2 to fully charge the battery. The car was $7800. No tax rebates. Only on new EV's.

Nice. We recently purchased a smart electric drive 2015 Cabrio with all the bells and whistles. Ours was closer to 18000 plus tax. Way fun and all kinds of Jam. We are okay with charging it on our own site but uncomfortable with charging it on an un-metered site as that can add up for the campground owner. Ours also charges at 12 amps so a little bit heavier load for the circuit. We have also found that there are enough level faster chargers at retail or community locations that the home charge is usually more of a top up anyway.

We love the little bugger. Great handling and all kinds of power. That and next to no maintenance. ?? We bought it as our commuter runabout but now seem to be using it as our main vehicle. :).

[jimbo98]

We just bought a used 2012 Mitsubishi I-MiEV SE full electric car with 5700 miles. It has a 62 mile range on a full charge, perfect for going in to town to run errands. Charges easily on a 120V plug drawing about 8 amps which gives it a full charge in 20 hours. The car is so easy to park. It does need to be towed on a trailer. Cant tow it on the rear wheels, which are the drive wheels. The car weighs about 2500 lbs, so even with a small trailer, it can be towed by my Itasca Navion (3500 lb. limit) I don't see any issue regarding over loading RV park electrical systems. It is a minor current draw compared to what RV's draw for running A/C's, lights, battery charging.
The best part is the cost savings. No more paying for gas, oil changes, maintenance. Less than $2 to fully charge the battery. The car was $7800. No tax rebates. Only on new EV's.

[John___Angela]

hpdrver wrote:
My Chevy Volt charges easily off a 15 amp 110 V outlet and costs only $1.25 for a full charge if electricity is 10 cents a kilowatt. It will take 8 hours to charge at this 110V rate but it does not overburden the electric infrastructure. Higher charge voltage if available is nice but not necessary. I get 42 miles on a complete charge and will be trading my 2012 Volt for the 2nd Generation Volt coming out this fall. This has been the most trouble free car that I have owned.

We liked our test drive in the volt and it is a great crossover car. However for us we don't or won't need the extended range that comes with the crossover capabilities of the car. Really for us 50- 60 miles is enough although by the time we get a leaf it will be a second generation with closer to 180 mil range. Friend of ours has had a leaf for four years or so. He has put on a whack of miles as a commuter. He is still on his original tires though. He says he has filled up his windshield washer fluid 6 or 7 times over the years and thats about it. 🙂

[hpdrver]

My Chevy Volt charges easily off a 15 amp 110 V outlet and costs only $1.25 for a full charge if electricity is 10 cents a kilowatt. It will take 8 hours to charge at this 110V rate but it does not overburden the electric infrastructure. Higher charge voltage if available is nice but not necessary. I get 42 miles on a complete charge and will be trading my 2012 Volt for the 2nd Generation Volt coming out this fall. This has been the most trouble free car that I have owned.

[John___Angela]

Bumpyroad wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

Anyway, I would suspect that we will frequent any business, shopping mall or whatever that provides charging stations for our car....when we get it. 🙂 Just gotta wear out these durn smart cars first. 🙂 Into year 10 and counting. 🙂

this reminds me of an article in the local paper a while back where they reported on the installation of a charging station on the counties/states? dime as a test at a local winery. I wrote a letter to the paper questioning the wisdom of such an installation. I mean people go to a winery for what 1/2 an hour??? why not put it in the parking lot for circuit court where people could be stuck for all day jury duty? would make a lot more sense to me.
bumpy

True. But it depends if it is a level 1, 2, or 3 charger. The fast charge sites are 80 percent in 30 minutes. I noticed some of the malls on the west coast had level 2 and 3 sites though.

I wondered if those stations were pay by time or kilowatt. Saw a lady in a non EV park in a charge site. She was getting towed when we came back. Too funny. Felt kinda bad for her, she must have missed the signs...and they were BIG.

[Bumpyroad]

John & Angela wrote:

Anyway, I would suspect that we will frequent any business, shopping mall or whatever that provides charging stations for our car....when we get it. 🙂 Just gotta wear out these durn smart cars first. 🙂 Into year 10 and counting. 🙂

this reminds me of an article in the local paper a while back where they reported on the installation of a charging station on the counties/states? dime as a test at a local winery. I wrote a letter to the paper questioning the wisdom of such an installation. I mean people go to a winery for what 1/2 an hour??? why not put it in the parking lot for circuit court where people could be stuck for all day jury duty? would make a lot more sense to me.
bumpy

[John___Angela]

4x4van wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
We specifically prohibit charging of electric vehicles. No campground's electrical system is designed to handle both the load of a 50 amp RV and the load created by charging an electric vehicle. Multiple units on an electrical loop would quickly trip the main breakers cutting power to all the rigs on the loop.
Today, electric cars are not much more than a curiosity piece. If the manufacturers ever want them to become mainstream, one thing they are going to have to do is come up with a recharging infrastructure that does not rely on the goodness of others. No one expects an RV park to fuel up their diesel pickup tow vehicle or their Honda CRV toad and it shouldn't fall upon the parks to fuel up someone's electric car.

Exactly what I was thinking! Those of you who think it's fine to charge your EV off the campground pedestal will be directly responsible for campgrounds increasing their prices to reflect the additional electricity as well as the requirement to upgrade their facilities.

The entire US does not have the infrastructure (nor the generating capability) to charge EVs if they become the norm. EVs are not "green"; the manufacture and disposal of the huge batteries are an environmental nightmare, and the electricity to charge them has to come from somewhere. Currently, most comes from the burning of coal and natural gas. Driving an EV actually does nothing for the environment.

I agree that currently with the amount of EV's on the road in the US and Canada it probably wouldn't be worth while for a campground to add a charging station or two. They are typically about 4400 dollars to install including the credit card swipe machine that pays for the power. However I think that will change over time as the density of electric vehicles increases.

Wether they are green or not depends on the country or even area within a country that they are used in. Some states and provinces in North America produce much or all of their power from water power and they have capacity to spare. Others not so much. But large scale natural gas plants produce energy much more efficiently than individual internal combustion engines. The reality is more and more of the worlds energy is being produced by non combustion methods so the writing is on the wall. Lead batteries used to be a huge source of pollution. Now 99.8 percent of lead is recycled and the lead mining market is growing smaller not bigger. Many of the components of the new generation batteries are recyclable as well and that technology will only continue to improve.

One risk I see is that the same thing will happen with electric vehicles in North America as high speed rail did. North America is 6 to 7 decades behind Europe and Asia as far as transport goes and there is really no hope in catching up. Anybody who has traveled on high speed rail in Countries like Spain, France, Japan, China etc knows how embarrassingly behind the curve we are on this side of the pond. Its one of the reasons our winter retirement plans have switched from North America to Europe.

Anyway, I would suspect that we will frequent any business, shopping mall or whatever that provides charging stations for our car....when we get it. 🙂 Just gotta wear out these durn smart cars first. 🙂 Into year 10 and counting. 🙂