Ford E450 sway bar?,s

[suprz]

My 2006 E450 has the original sway bars and sway bar links. I cannot afford new hellwig sway bars at this point. I am wondering if anyone has changed the original sway bar links, bushings, etc and how much of a difference it makes.

[mrmomb]

I replaced front and rear sway bars with Hellwigs. The rear came with new end links however the front uses Ford's stock mushy end links. Are there any aftermarket stiffer end links available that are recommended?

[j-d]

^^^^ Great Pix!!! They show not only the much more massive size of the Hellwig bars, but also how they match up with OEM attaching points for easy DIY installation. The Rear uses all OEM points. The Front, up through 2007, uses the center bushing locations, but the ends are different since Ford was using a bar that engaged bushings pressed into the axles. It was a poor arrangement and Ford went back to end links in 2008 and newer. This is a 2012 axle with the Hellwig bar from 1992-2007. You can see the large round holes in the axle that held the OEM front sway bar from those years, just no bushings in them. Then the rusted surface is the mounting boss they added for sway bar end links in 2008 and newer. The 1992-2007 Hellwig kit will work on 2008-up but the 2008-up Hellwig kit needs those end link attach points and won't find them on a 1992-2007 axle. Removing the OEM front bar only requires unbolting the center (where the bushings and brackets are in the photo earlier in this thread) and pulling the bar out of its axle bushings. Bushings can stay. Then you build the end link mounts shown in my pic above, from the Hellwig kit.

Install Front first. Unfold/flatten the box to make a surface to slide around on to ease getting to the rear. Close the rear box up and put the new bar on top of it to help slide it under. Also gets you that much closer to the installation height. All you have to do is remove the old bar then catch one of the axle mounts of the new one. From there it's easy to lift the second axle mount in place and move on tho the frame attachments forward of the axle. Cardboard is your Friend!

[ron_dittmer]

Yep!

A huge difference. Not just the thickness of the bar, but also the unforgiving polymer bushings compared to the softer rubber bushings that compress with every lean.

Replacing both the front and rear stabilizer bars on any year Ford E350/E450 is the single biggest bang for the buck you can make to improve the handling of your motor home.

Many people don't realize this, but the E350 up to and including year 2007, has no rear stabilizer bar at all, unless added by the RV manufacture or previous owner. Ford never installed one in back.

I got so very tired of recommending the stabilizer bar upgrade. I seemed to irritate long-standing forum members with my consistent recommendation. Thanks j-d for carrying the ball in recent years.

Ron Dittmer

[Nels_Connie]

Hellwig bars next to the stock bars.

[j-d]

Off the exact topic, but the front brakes taken off a late model (2008 and newer) E-3/450 being converted to 4x4 make a huge upgrade in driving and stopping performance on 2007 and earlier chassis year. A hard stop graduates from "wishing for more brakes" to "there's always more brakes."

I got my parts from Quigley in Pennsylvania, and the "kit" I bought was axles, radius arms and all. Even came with front shocks and a couple tie rod ends. I had to buy new Radius Arm Bolts and Nuts, Brake Hoses, and the upper Nut/Washer/Bushing combo for the Shocks. A No-Drill (or Grind, or Cut or File) installation. Re-used the Master Cylinder.

This swap is less expensive than a full front brake job (calipers, pads, rotors, bearings) or a suspension re-build (ball joints, bushings), and the Radius Arms are an updated design.

Quigley will also sell Brakes Only. That'd be Brackets, Rotors, Calipers with Pads, Splash Pans, and ABS Sensors. I re-used my Sensors because the connectors on our 2002 E-450 were different than the new (2012) ones. Sensor end was the same. You'd be on your own for the Hoses. Got my Dorman hoses on Amazon. All the other stuff mentioned above, I got from Ford.

[j-d]

^^^ I've said it before and here it's being said again! Huge Improvements! You'll notice it Parked, too.

Since this member's a racer... There's talk, and truth in it, about how too much front/rear "roll stiffness" can contribute to under/over-steer. I have no doubt it's true in the racing world. Just not applicable in the RV world. Stiffening the front and rear on an RV, particularly an E-Series with Twin-I-Beam "Swing" axles, just doesn't have a downside. Might "on paper" but not In Use. The RV operating envelope is nothing like racers, even ordinary daily drivers. When the E-Series sways, it steers. E-350 and 450 should be the same in the front axle/suspension. That, or I missed some interference that's actually there...

Yo! SteelJag! Oftentimes, we hear from an owner whose E-Series based Class C drives just fine. I think some of that sentiment may be based on conditions and expectations, but I also think part of it is luck-of-the-draw.

I can offer several possibilities why a given coach would handle better than another:

New parts or no worn parts of course

Wheelbase and Floor Plan allow for good weight distribution

Proper loading for good weight distribution

Tire Pressures set according to Actual Scale Weights for Front and Rear Axles

Front End Alignment intentionally or otherwise set to reflect motor home load and usage. Especially CASTER, should be 5* or more. Range is 3-7* and the mid-range of 3* makes steering very vague.

[blownstang01]

I just got done installing front & rear Hellwig sway bars and BOY what a difference.
A little background; I am a "Car Guy". I have raced cars for 30 years, along with building and Fabrication, even to the extent of building several very high end drag cars (twin turbo, custom roll cages, chassis set up etc. etc.) for customers. Worked at a large Ford dealer for almost 20 years, started in the body shop, became Service Manager, then onto Operations Manager before leaving for my current profession. So, basically I have always done my own work and sometimes I may make things sound easier to do than maybe they are.

With that out of the way, I have a 2006 Winnebago Class C, 40,000 miles. I didn't really think it drove too bad at all, but I have also towed 5th wheel race trailers with a Ford Dually for years. However, I wanted to make the coach handle a little better so maybe my wife can feel comfortable to drive once in a while. Also, I like to tinker if you hadn't figured that yet. Ordered the Hellwig bars through Summit Racing Equipment, I paid $241 for the front bar (7008), and $243 for the rear (7180) shipped, I get "pro racer" pricing from Summit so expect a little higher price without discount. The front bar lower bracket needed a small modification to fit around the drivers side radius arm...a small notch cut out, no biggie. Ironically Summit's online catalog does not show the 7008 fitting the E450, only the E350, but Hellwigs catalog says it fits, so I assume this is why. The rear bar went on without any drama. The size difference in the bars is almost comical, new bars are very large in comparison.
In conclusion, the difference in highway handling is HUGE. They are very easy to install, and well worth the $500. I had also installed Koni FSD shocks last season so I'm sure that helps with mine too. I am now confident the wife can drive it with ease. Good Luck !

[Steeljag]

I've been reading about "improving handling" on class C's for months now while awaiting our new C to be completed. We flew to Ohio to pick up our unit, and after all that reading, I really expected the worst.

1400 miles later, and driving through mountains and that storm front that crossed the east coast on the 1st, I gotta tell ya, that C handled fine ! I've never driven a C class prior, and maybe I was just expecting the worst, but it was all smooth sailing for us.

The only time ( twice) while on the interstate that I felt "pushed / blown" was when we were passed by a Prevost bus. That bus actually passed us twice that day and both times it was really moving. Maybe because of the flat front of the bus ?

Maybe because our C is new and tight it handled well ?

I did all the reading of those changing out shocks, steering stabilizers, track bars, sway bars, sumo springs, etc, but at this time I have no plans to change anything out! I hope I'm not jinxing myself, and I hope things don't " loosen" up.....LOL !

[j-d]

That pic looks like the middle portion of an aftermarket sway bar, and "ipd" is a handling parts brand I'd heard of, years ago. Searching now, it seems they've zeroed in on Volvo, but maybe they had or still have other offerings.

I believe a Lazy Daze will exhibit better handling than most Class C's of the same size, let alone bigger ones. They're lighter and lower than most designs.

Most likely, the Track Bar mounting that clamps onto the driver side frame rail, may compete for physical space with the driver side of an air bag kit.

I also added a BlueOx Tiger Trak Bar. It's not as easy as sway bars, and the attaching clamp is a little hard to visualize. I called BlueOx support, and shortly received a call from their handling specialist, Mr. Ralph Andrews. This was several years ago, I don't know if Ralph is still there. He was very helpful with my questions and clearly had depth beyond somebody reading a troubleshooting flow chart. He said he'd actually designed most of the rear track bars in the market. Also confirmed most of them are the same for a given application, just different branding, numbering, and paint color. Said they were all made by one plant in Pacific NW.

Anyhow, if anybody can help with an install question, I'd vote for Ralph. Failing that, John Henderson at Hendersons Line Up in Grants Pass OR, or Eric Davis at Eric's RV in Sequim WA.

Sway bars made the big difference, but track bar added more improvement.

For Brother Ron Dittmer: Having a sway bar and a track bar didn't seem to create a conflict. Problem I had was getting the track bar to clear something, and I forget if it was the differential cover, or the front of the fuel tank. Ralph assured be it'd fit if I forced the clamp forward, along the frame rail, as far as it would go. That meant hard against a crossmember.

We always have to be careful not to pinch something like fuel lines, wiring harnesses, brake lines/cables, etc. There's more risk of doing that with the track bar clamp than the sway bar link mountings. Track bar has bigger fasteners and requires more torque than the sway bars.

[photobug]

Here's what's on the front of mine. Previous owner put it on so I can't tell how much help it is. Rig handles twisty roads just fine.

[Community Alumni]

No problem. Thanks for the info.

[ron_dittmer]

chag67 wrote:

ron.dittmer wrote:
A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.

The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.

Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.

Does this make sense?

That makes perfect sense and sounds like I will definitely need one too. I have a long over hang on the rear plus I will be pulling an enclosed trailer at times.

Is rear trac bar as easy an installation as the Hellwig sway bars?

I also saw on Blue Ox website that the rear trac bar will not work with an air bag system. I have an air bag system on my rig.

I wish I could answer your last questions, but I cannot for I just don't know. I do recall the people who installed both a Roadmaster rear heavy duty stabilizer bar and a Henderson trac bar together on my rig said they had to do something creative. I think it had to do with sharing a common mounting point. But that was 10 years ago and so my memory is fuzzy.

[Community Alumni]

ron.dittmer wrote:
A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.

The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.

Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.

Does this make sense?

That makes perfect sense and sounds like I will definitely need one too. I have a long over hang on the rear plus I will be pulling an enclosed trailer at times.

Is rear trac bar as easy an installation as the Hellwig sway bars?

I also saw on Blue Ox website that the rear trac bar will not work with an air bag system. I have an air bag system on my rig.

[ron_dittmer]

chag67 wrote:

ron.dittmer wrote:
It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.

Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.

Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.

What does the rear trac bar do differently than rear stabilizer bar?

A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.

The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.

Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.

Does this make sense?

[Community Alumni]

ron.dittmer wrote:
It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.

Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.

Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.

What does the rear trac bar do differently than rear stabilizer bar?