Ford Spark Plug Problems?

[txnese]

Just picked up a 2003 Four Winds on Ford E450 chassis with V10, 32K miles. Been seeing a lot of forums on spark plug blow out or breaking inside of the cylinder. Looks like mostly E350/F350 and lighter models though. Anyone with a similar rig with any input/experience on this? Thank you all.

[garyhaupt]

Thought I would contribute..I have a 99 E 350 and two summers ago had a plug blow out. A guy in Vanderhoof did the job..and it was quite a piece of work. Tapping the hole blind..couldn't actually see it. In with the heli-coil.

I had bought a set of coils from Summit Racing some months ago, too..a just in case thing. At a Ford dealer here in Canada they are $100.00 a piece...Summit was..uhmmm...$100? for 10. Anyway...with 210,000 on the clock I decided now is a good time to change out all the plugs and coils...had the work done here in Penticton. $600.00. That included a tire rotation, by request.


Gary Haupt

[j-d]

CD, the shop I visited, looked our 2002 up by VIN and produced 08-15 ft-lb with NO anti-seize. Told me he'd torque to 15, again, dry. I'm confident enough in what they told me, that I'd go ahead with that torque, but from what you said, pull the plugs with engine cold.

[CloudDriver]

blownstang01 - thanks for your comments.

Would you happen to know the correct spark plug torque value for a 2003 2-valve engine? My plugs have 8 threads on them, but I can't see well enough down the hole to see how many threads are in the head and the internet has a number of different torques for plugs. Hard to tell which engine the poster is referring to.

Thanks in advance

[blownstang01]

Just replaced the plugs on my '06 @ 46,000 miles...just because I was doing spring maintenance and wanted them replaced. Glad I did, the gaps on the "100,000" plugs was already at .070 up from the factory .054...as you know can cause coil pack and boot issues with the increased gap. The job took me about an hour and a half. The biggest thing about working on anything on these is to not be afraid to move stuff out of the way, a few minutes here saves a ton during the job. For instance, for plugs I removed the airbox assembly, the passenger side lower dash trim, and the two plastic wire supports that encapsulate the coil pack and injector wiring. With the wire supports in place it's very difficult to get a straight shot at the plugs...with them removed it's pretty easy.


WARNING-----Seriously Boring Somewhat Irrelevant Info Follows:

A side not about plug problems, if anyone seen my previous post, I stated that I worked for a large Ford dealer for almost 20 years. One thing we saw in the early modular engines (pre-2002) was spark plug blow-out, mainly due to not enough threads in the heads. Actually, IMO this wasn't even a wide-spread issue, but you know how the internet goes so now all Ford engines have this problem, lol. This (again IMO) caused additional problem from backyard mechanics tightening the snot out of replacement plugs because they "heard" about all these "problems" and the next guy couldn't get those ones out without screwing things up.
Next came the 3 valve engines that had two problems...mostly in F-series trucks. First problem was that the 3-valve spark plug has a long extended tip that originally was two piece...this probably looked great on paper to help plug cooling and packaging, but nobody seemed to realize what carbon build-up would do to the surrounding orifice of the plug in the cylinder head. Yup, you guessed it, carbon buildup would seize the lower extension of the plug and it would break off when removing. This became exasperated when the plug change intervals was upped to 100,000 miles and became the debacle we see all over the internet today. The second issue was on the F-series the engines sit way back under the cowl causing rain water to drip down onto the last cylinders, that would eventually leak past the coil seal and fill the plug hole in the head with water.....rusts the plug...eventually has a misfire due to moisture in coil/boot. Then the plug is corroded and not easy to remove. The advice around the shop was never go more than around 30K miles on plugs if you want to get them out. Ironically, other shops would say never touch a 3-valve plug unless you have to, lol. We had some success in getting the factory plugs out by running seafoam through the engine first to help clean the carbon out. Oh, and always replace with one-piece plugs!
So, anyway after that long winded post this is useless info to Class C guys as the E-series doesn't have that engine, but maybe a Class A 3-valve guy might stumble in some time. Cheers

[txnese]

Thanks everyone, but after reading everything. Looks like I'm not affected by the issue, more commonly seen in non-E series. Especially if they're still OEM plugs. I'll just double check torque and let it be for next 10-15k miles.

[T18skyguy]

Clouddriver, that gap tool is a nice one. It's one of the best I think. I have a bunch of different ones and that one does the gap and adjustment very nicely. For a less expensive setup than the Snap-On socket, it's possible to get an extension and socket that lock together with a pin that has a spring underneath it, similar to impact sockets. I can't remember the brand, but just make sure it can't come apart. If the socket jams, a magnet may not be strong enough to get it out. I do think your duct tape idea will work unless it jams really bad, which I think unlikely. The Snap-On socket is a 3/8 drive and it fits the plug perfectly. The B diameter you mention is not more wide than usual, in fact I think it to be more narrow which is an advantage. You can kind of gently feel the plug drop into position with a slight wiggle of the socket then very slowly start to turn it. If it hangs up you stop, alter the angle a bit, then turn repeat. Be gentle. Once it starts you will feel uniform slight but smooth resistance and you know your headed home.

[CloudDriver]

A couple of new things to pass along.

The old spark plug is marked AGSF22WM. The new plugs from the dealer are marked the same. The box is marked SP-479 AGSF22WM. On the side of the box is says "DO NOT REMOVE WHEN ENGINE IS HOT". The plugs fit a 5/8" socket. To get the old plug out, I used a 5/8" spark plug socket with a 3" extension and a 3/8" to 3/8" swivel to increase the height so I could get the ratchet on. I used the handyman's friend (duct tape) to tie the spark plug socket to the extension so I wouldn't lose it if it got stuck on the plug. This is the new spark plug socket I ordered. Fingers crossed that it isn't too long and the socket wall is thin enough. This is the gap tool I ordered. Never had one like this before, but it got good reviews.

I only bought one ignition coil from the dealer as their price was much higher at $75.75 than what I had seen online. The old coil is marked 1L2U-12A366-AA. The Motorcraft plastic bag the new coil came in is marked DG-508 3W7Z-12029-AA and the UPC on is 031508450622. I found a listing for this set of numbers, including the UPC, on Summit Racing for $44.97. Summit Racing claims that these are OEM items and fingers crossed that these arrive in the same Motorcraft packaging that I got from the dealer.

[pauldub]

The spark plugs are 5/8", not 13/16". I didn't have any trouble just using the regular 5/8 spark plug socket and extension that I already had. The real trouble is just getting access to the middle plugs on the passenger side. Blow out the spark plug recess before you loosen it, loosen it a little and then blow it out again before you finish removing it.

[j-d]

Here's the pic for that tool and the dimensional sketch
A = 3/8" Drive Size (and I think that's for clarification, surely it's 3/8" internal/female, not as pictured. Then B is not called out in the dimensions, so I can't tell if it's the outside diameter of the socket "shell" or the hex size of the plug, which they show as 13/16". The C = 5-7/8" and I take it the knurled surface lets us start and remove the plug by gripping it with our fingers.

Am I right about all this? Is the outside diameter ("B"?) meant to fit so closely that the plug is forced to be in alignment with its threaded hole?

I have yet to see a V10 plug. I would have thought they'd be 5/8" hex, but the Snap-On link indicates 13/16". Hmmm

I'm at 5" with my 13/16" (Penncraft! Anybody got one of those?) plug socket and a 3" 3/8 extension. At $70 for the Snap-On socket, I'll epoxy my two together and if I can't separate them later, Oh-Well.

[T18skyguy]

j-d, the Snap-On part number for the socket S9719KA. It doesn't look like the one in your photo but I might be wrong. Yes it's expensive, but it solves two problems. The first is cross threading, because you use the socket to start the plug and you can feel it. The second problem is if you get unlucky, and the shorty socket gets jammed in the head, that 70 bucks is nothing compared to the nightmare of trying to get that socket out. The Snap-On guy said it was developed with the V10 in mind, but can be used for others also. Good luck with whatever you do but if you get that socket your gonna love it. Makes the job just a bit more safe and easy, but the whole thing is not an easy job.

[pauldub]

CloudDriver,

You can get OEM coils for around $40 online. If I recall correctly that's about half the price from the stealer.

[oldusedbear]

In case someone is interested - - I have a 2001 E450, and elected to install the Timesert steel spark plug thread inserts. It took me a couple of days, with the help of one of my sons. There is a considerable difference between the different thread kits available for this job - - so do your research carefully.

The van chassis is a sort of booger for this operation. You do about half the cylinders from the front, and about half from the doghouse side.

Absolutely critical is having both intake and exhaust valves CLOSED when you do the insert placement in one of the cylinders. If you hit a valve with the tooling, you get to remove THAT cylinder head to make repairs. I bought a little optical/TV type viewer snake to make sure I could see the valves.

I rigged up a small piece of plastic tubing to clean up any shavings or junk from the cylinder after doing the insert.

Threads were almost non-existent in the head - - don't know how they could have built it like that. Not surprised they would blow out or easily strip.

Paid around four hundred bucks for the Timesert installation kit (well designed and built) and sold it after the job for three hundred.

It helps to have some machine tool type of experience before trying this kind of job. Not everyone will find it a breeze.

oldusedbear

[j-d]

@T18: I didn't see a specific "Ford Two Valve Modular Spark Plug Socket" in Snap-On's online catalog. They did show this jewel (at a jewel price of $73! Your tip to HAND START the new plugs is totally telling. That seems to be where the real trouble can start.
@CloudDriver: I'd like to see the Socket you ordered. That and the Gap Gauge. Thought till now that a good 5/8" six point thin wall plug socket with its foam insert in good shape, will do this job. Any search I've done for "Ford Spark Plug Socket" etc. has led to "F150" and the 9/16" socket for plugs in Three Valve engines.
Tip a friend gave me was to use two drive size adapters, as a very short extension. Ratchet and Socket are 3/8" so Ratchet to 3/8==>1/2 then 1/2==>3/8 to Socket. Provides a little over an inch of extension and they don't sell 'em that short.
I use those little Harbor Fright 3-gallon "Pancake" compressors. That's plural because two have failed so far. GREAT for bike tires and my HF 18-gauge nailer/stapler. GOOD for blowing parts out and for Car Tires. Only FAIR for RV tires. That 100-PSI rating is marginal for getting a tire up to 80. A new compressor's supposed to be run 30-mics at no load as break-in. If you get a new one, so that, and if nothing else, run it up till it shuts off at 100 and park it. Check gauges periodically. A good, new one, will hold all 100 for weeks. If it doesn't, get them to give you another one. I go back because $40 on sale for about three years of use gives me something I can carry that fits in my storage compartment.

[paddykernahan]

j-d wrote:

timmac wrote:
...2006 to early 2008 3 valve V-10's spark plugs when removing comes apart in 2 pieces leaving the lower section stuck in the head, however they do have a tool to remove the broken part...

True, but no three-valve ever got into an E-Series Ford. Pickups, Class A chassis, probably a bunch of cars, but not vans, cutaway E-Series chassis, etc.

This whole spark plug thing didn't play well at Ford:

1. Two Valve without enough threads, three model years

2. Two Valve with enough but machined wrong, three model years

3. Three Valve with a new spark plug problem, three more model years

But only 1. and 2. relate to Ford Class C Chassis (E-Series).

And my friends wonder why I stopped buying Fords.

[T18skyguy]

I just did the job last week on an 03 E350 box van I have. The engine was acting up a bit at 48,000 miles so I dove in. It's a tough job, especially hard on the passenger side. Access much more difficult on that side. The two hardest plugs are the second and third on the passenger side as you look under the hood. Your gonna want a beer after doing those. I would advise anyone doing the job to review some of the really good youtube video's.They have some real good tips. Snap-on makes a spark plug socket for just this engine. It's about 6 inches long and it holds the plug in with a nice snap when it's seated right. A few important points. Get some extra long zip ties. Use them to support and pull the wiring harness gently out of the way on each side. It's especially helpful on the passenger side. Do use compressed air to clean around the plugs before removal, and then again after you remove one. Use Motorcraft plugs(platinum) only no Autolite. If your coils are good replace the boots-get them from Napa. Put silicone grease on the end of each boot. The boot has an arrow on it that you match up to an arrow on the coil. Don't fail to do this or it won't go in right. I used a very small amount of anti-seize and torqued them to 23 foot pounds. There is no way those plugs are good for 100.000 miles. Mine at 48K had the gap way over spec. Hand start the plugs in the head only to avoid cross threading. You can feel when it's going right. Since I had the front all apart, I was going to do the idle pulley, belt, and tensioner, but held off and will do all that when the water pump goes. I would say that unless you have good tools and good mechanic skills, it may be worth it to give Ford the $500. Mine turned out good and is running like a champ.