Gale Banks upgrade on Workhorse w22 with 8.1 GM

[Fairway9]

Has anyone done a Banks Stinger or a Power Pack upgrade to a W22 chassis With the 8.1 GM. Has it made a worth while difference in power? I'm hope to squeeze a few more horses when it comes to climbing hills. I'm not expecting any improvement in fuel economy. Any feed back would be appreciated.

Thx Art

[ArchHoagland]

hanko wrote:
15 responses and not one person that has done what the OP's question pertained to.

Original poster said "Any feed back would be appreciated."

[nevadanick]

I have a W16 with 8.1 and Banks Headers, exhaust and air filter intake. It was on the MH when i bought it so i cant say what the differeance is. I can say this, i pull a 8.5 x 20 enclosed trailer with side by side and other stuff and here in the west have never lacked for power going over hills. Before i bought it from my friend we were in Idaho and he was able to keep up with my 2011 GMC dmax with similar load on the hills.

[BigMac]

Interesting replies, all. The great thing about this forum is that we're never lacking for opinions. My own experience is with my 2004 Georgetown with Ford V10 and 3sp+OD transmission. Performance on mine is uprated from the original V10 version, but not up to the 3-valve motor in the later Fords. And as a result, on long and/or steep hills (I'm talking east coast) pulling my toad, I invariably had no recourse but to drop into 2nd gear to finally get to the top. I fully appreciate that that it's not about who gets to the top of the hill first, but rather about just getting to the top; but this was maddening and no matter how I tried to anticipate the conditions, I'd find myself at 40 MPH with flashers on and the motor "screaming". So last year, after 10 years and 40,000 miles I popped for a Banks Power Pak and the Brazels UltraPower tune to take full advantage of it. It was my choice to spend the money as it will be yours if you choose to go with what you propose. But I can tell you that I am extremely pleased with the new drivability of my MH. It pulls thru the entire RPM range, does not strain, holds reasonable speed in 3rd up most hills, shifts much better in all cases (and doesn't drop out of 3rd at the drop of a hat). Having experienced now what it's like to drive this thing, I wish I had done it a long time ago. My 2 cents for what it's worth. I hope it helps.

[hanko]

15 responses and not one person that has done what the OP's question pertained to.

[J-Rooster]

ArchHoagland wrote:

Fairway9 wrote:
Has anyone done a Banks Stinger or a Power Pack upgrade to a W22 chassis With the 8.1 GM. Has it made a worth while difference in power? I'm hope to squeeze a few more horses when it comes to climbing hills. I'm not expecting any improvement in fuel economy. Any feed back would be appreciated.

Thx Art

I've put close to 80,000 miles on my stock 8.1 and have crossed the country several times climbing over many mountains with a 4,000lb toad behind me.

In my humble opinion I don't think you need to spend any money to get more power as this engine pulls pretty strong just as it is.

Put the money you were going to spend on it into gasoline and take more trips.

I agree with this post!

[Fairway9]

Thanks for all the feedback, I was not looking to hot rod my 8.1, just improve the hill climbing a little, we travel frequently with an another couple who pull a fiver with a duramax and they uusually have me lead but they invariably climb my but on all the hills. Some reprogramming on the allison and little better engine breathing is my main goal and was considering Banks stinger package with the Ottomind tuner. Still in the analysis state. It is expensive especially to ship up to Canada. I do pull a 4000 lb toad and that does affect the hill climbing ability.

Regards Art

[ArchHoagland]

Fairway9 wrote:
Has anyone done a Banks Stinger or a Power Pack upgrade to a W22 chassis With the 8.1 GM. Has it made a worth while difference in power? I'm hope to squeeze a few more horses when it comes to climbing hills. I'm not expecting any improvement in fuel economy. Any feed back would be appreciated.

Thx Art

I've put close to 80,000 miles on my stock 8.1 and have crossed the country several times climbing over many mountains with a 4,000lb toad behind me.

In my humble opinion I don't think you need to spend any money to get more power as this engine pulls pretty strong just as it is.

Put the money you were going to spend on it into gasoline and take more trips.

[randallb]

Rag,
I just try to help people on this forum. The push back once more is going to send me away. It just is not worth the time to try to explain the nuances of engine design, tune compromises and the aftermarkets ability to prey upon the uninformed.
Randy

[rgatijnet1]

randallb wrote:
Rag,
Probe sells all styles of pistons including hypereutetic. I have also ben involved with many types of high performance engines from NA to Nitrous to Nitro and have talked to a lot of the old timers like Tom Prock at JE about the hypereutectics. I once saw a guy break a hyper piston free reving his engine, about 4500 rpm, showing off. Do what you like I am just trying to give advice based on 40+ years working on everything from stock, at the dealership level, to 8,000 HP Nitro Coupes. I must ask one question. Did you understand the part of the article about taking the silicone content to a percentage higher than the aluminum and silcone's ability to meld? 12% silicone has always been the maximum amount of silicone you can add to an aluminum alloy and have it fully integrate. Above 12 % is where the brittleness comes from in a hypereutectic piston. If you are interested in why manufacturers are using these pistons I will be willing to point you to more articles having to do with piston rock cold, etc.
I hope you never have an upper ring land break but if one does you will now know why.
Randy
p.s. I also looked long and hard at a new Monaco 30 SFS on a Workhorse chassis and being a hot rodder at heart looked at all of the "tuners" in the market at that time. My studies convinced me that I would be perfectly happy with the stock tune up. Also, one of the original complaints that most of the "tuners" were attempting to fix was the sooty exhaust pipes on the 8.1 powered RVs. The only way to clean up a tail pipe on an exhaust system that long is to take fuel away. Opps, detonation.

Randy,
I read what the article said and that they build pistons with an 11% mixture of silicone. They did not give the percentage of silicone in the GM 8.1L pistons. Don't the pistons follow the same engineering logic about leaving HP on the table. Why would that same engineer spec a poor piston that would fail?
I was not making a change to hot rod my 8.1L but I did want to increase the low end torque and power available for mountain climbing while towing. They also reprogrammed my Allison to allow the overdrive to come on a few MPH quicker and shift a little sooner to take advantage of the increase in engine performance. This made a big improvement with my hill climbing ability but had an immeasurable affect on fuel mileage. I was not looking to accomplish what a full Banks system may provide.
I've actually never noticed my exhaust to be sooty but I do monitor my AF ratio. If my pipe gets sooty, so be it and like you say, leaning it out is the only cure it and that can lead to detonation.

[randallb]

Rag,
Probe sells all styles of pistons including hypereutetic. I have also ben involved with many types of high performance engines from NA to Nitrous to Nitro and have talked to a lot of the old timers like Tom Prock at JE about the hypereutectics. I once saw a guy break a hyper piston free reving his engine, about 4500 rpm, showing off. Do what you like I am just trying to give advice based on 40+ years working on everything from stock, at the dealership level, to 8,000 HP Nitro Coupes. I must ask one question. Did you understand the part of the article about taking the silicone content to a percentage higher than the aluminum and silcone's ability to meld? 12% silicone has always been the maximum amount of silicone you can add to an aluminum alloy and have it fully integrate. Above 12 % is where the brittleness comes from in a hypereutectic piston. If you are interested in why manufacturers are using these pistons I will be willing to point you to more articles having to do with piston rock cold, etc.
I hope you never have an upper ring land break but if one does you will now know why.
Randy
p.s. I also looked long and hard at a new Monaco 30 SFS on a Workhorse chassis and being a hot rodder at heart looked at all of the "tuners" in the market at that time. My studies convinced me that I would be perfectly happy with the stock tune up. Also, one of the original complaints that most of the "tuners" were attempting to fix was the sooty exhaust pipes on the 8.1 powered RVs. The only way to clean up a tail pipe on an exhaust system that long is to take fuel away. Opps, detonation.

[JimM68]

I did a brazels ultratune on a 2 valve ford V10. Mine was one of the first, perhaps even a prototype programmer.

The people and products at Brazel's were AMAZING. They asked and listened to what I wanted and needed, mostly because the V10 rev's too high too often, and downshifts at the sight of a hill on the horizon.

They did 3 custom tunes for me before we decided we was good.
And no, the 99 V10 never detonated, and it never spit any 3 thread spark plugs out the fenderwells.

Just as back in the old days I spent a lot of time playing with Holley main jets and powervalves, as well as distributor advance springs and weights, I'm not a fan of "one size fits all" tuning.

Especially now, when emissions and MPG testing costs so much. Manufacturers save a fortune if they only have to certify a particular combination once.

[rgatijnet1]

topflite51 wrote:
"Since I monitor my engine continuously with my ScanGauge I can see if my Air/fuel ratio varies from 14.7 to a lean condition"

Based on my observations, very few consumers would do this. Most it appears are hard pressed to do anything other than put fuel in the tank and turn the key. Minor upgrades to the ECM are one thing, the problem is you get very little with minor upgrades to the ECM, certainly not enough to justify their expense.

I assume that you have a dyno read out on your engine to support this statement. Brazels does provide a before and after dyno print out on your vehicle to verify the changes. Before you leave their shop you can see the actual difference in your engine performance and if you are not happy, you can go back to the way it was. Once on the road and in the mountains, I was very pleased with the improvements and pleased with the cost compared to a full Banks treatment. If the OP wants to go with a Banks conversion, fine. I was only suggesting a method that I tried on the same chassis, based on my own experience and 60,000+ miles of testing.

[topflite51]

"Since I monitor my engine continuously with my ScanGauge I can see if my Air/fuel ratio varies from 14.7 to a lean condition"

Based on my observations, very few consumers would do this. Most it appears are hard pressed to do anything other than put fuel in the tank and turn the key. Minor upgrades to the ECM are one thing, the problem is you get very little with minor upgrades to the ECM, certainly not enough to justify their expense.

[rgatijnet1]

randallb wrote:
Rag,
You have been one of the many who have experienced no issue but, if you were one of the people who had an issue your outlook would be different. My statement comes from having seen enough hypereutectic piston upper ring land failures to convince me I would not add any additional ignition timing to a factory engine using a hyper piston. Are you aware that most of the aftermarket tuners made significant changes to their timing and fuel maps based on issues? Please read the following article, www.probeindustries.com/Articles.asp?ID=144
Randy

Thanks for the article that was written by a company that sells forged pistons. I'm not saying that what was written was not factual but after 60,000 miles of use, I can say that my Ultra ECM was NOT programmed with any pre-ignition or detonation concerns. Obviously they kept the timing specs within the acceptable parameters for my engine. My 14.7 AF ratio also indicates that they did not lean the engine out to the point of detonation.
I do not doubt that some tuners reprogrammed the ECM for MAXIMUM performance, could push the limits of ANY engine but that is not the purpose of the Ultra tune.