Not enough batteries

[Winnipeg]

We are kicking tires on a new MH. Yes, we want a new gas coach, so suggesting a used DP to solve this particular question is not on track.

The Allegro 32 gas coach has our eye, but we are wondering about only 2 batteries. It appears that almost all upper level gas coaches have residential fridges these days, and they mostly all have only 2 batteries. It doesn't seam like enough. We mostly desert camp without hookups.

When residential fridges first started showing up in DP's about 10 years ago, they were adding 2 extra batteries in addition to the typical 4 batteries that DP's had. LED lights have reduced the load, and maybe 6 batteries is not necessary, but 2 seams too little.

The problem is complicated by the fact that simply adding more batteries does not appear to be an easy task. The two that come with it are under the steps. Maybe replace those with lithium? The storage compartments are not very heavy gauge, so simply putting batteries in there may not be a good idea without reinforcing things.

Any comments on dry camping with residential fridge & only 2 batteries? What happens if your furnace comes on and further taxes the batteries? Any good battery upgrade solutions?

[Sam_Spade]

Winnipeg wrote:
Are the sales people more interested in selling the in-stock unit (with residential fridge) than they are with meeting the customer's needs?

You're joking with that comment......right ??

Not only that but they are known to tell you that an inappropriate combination of equipment will work just fine when they should know that it won't.

Note: A successful salesman doesn't necessarily need to know his product.....IF he knows his customers.

[wa8yxm]

Winnipeg wrote:
First, Tiffin is putting 2 @ 6V batteries into the Alegro 32SA. That is better than 12V (I think). Second, the residential fridge is OPTIONAL on this model. So, I can get it with the good old propane/12V fridge.

Thank you for the on-topic comments

Uh, the two six volt batteries ARE one 12 volt battery (Eqaual to a 4D in case you wonder)... This has gotten me in lots of arguments.

When in your hand going to or from the battery store, Or in my case on the Store Assistant's hand cart, they are indeed two six volts.

but the moment you hook up that jumper between the 1st and the 2nd they magically become one big 12 volt battery.. I say this because many times I have seen questions about how you tread them different from a 12 volt.. The answer is you don't

Can I replace just one: Can you replace half a 12 volt battery
Do they have to be teh same (age, size, make, et-al) can you get a 12 volt battery that is say half interstate/half Excide?

How do I charge THEM (you charge IT the single 12 volt, Just like a pair of say Group 29s)

Makes life so easier to think of the pair as a single battery, for they are just that when properly installed.

[Winnipeg]

Well, buried in with LOTS of off-topic responses, someone gave me some very good insight. I confess to taking the "sales" person's statements as truth. Are the sales people more interested in selling the in-stock unit (with residential fridge) than they are with meeting the customer's needs?

First, Tiffin is putting 2 @ 6V batteries into the Alegro 32SA. That is better than 12V (I think). Second, the residential fridge is OPTIONAL on this model. So, I can get it with the good old propane/12V fridge.

Thank you for the on-topic comments

[Mr_Mark1]

You guys are both good posters..... let it rest. Take a breath.

MM.

[Mile_High]

dougrainer wrote:

Mile High wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

Mile High wrote:

usersmanual wrote:
I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

Nobody is arguing where the power comes for the brakes, but it can't be towed without a battery because of the break away, so you get a cheap battery when it leaves the factory, regardless of how many it is supposed to hold normally.

NONE of our Towables come with batteries from the factory. The Factories do not care about having a battery for the Break away system and neither do the Transport companies. I work (37 years and still do) for a large Towable/motorhome dealer(same dealer for those 37 years). AND, we install Interstate Batteries on ALL our units. Interstate makes about the best battery out there. The reason I mentioned Jayco is because Jayco makes provision for 6 batteries on their 5th wheels with residential and we install all 6(OUR expense, not Jayco's AND NO OEM pays a dealer for the battery install) on those models. All other Towables, we install 1 battery even if there are mounts for 2 or more unless the customer pays for the extra batteries on the deal. Doug

Years ago they did come with CHEAP batteries, but since 2008, they dropped batteries in almost all brands on towables.

Well I can't speak for the brands you sell. I can only speak for the brands I buy, and those factories are a little more conscientious of the law and the risks to other motorists.

Regardless - this whole conversation is going nowhere so everyone can zip up their pants and put the rulers away and we can get back on topic. My point was that in addition to battery quantities, there are battery sizes and even if you have less number of batteries than you think you should have, the batteries themselves may be of a higher series and capacity.

REALLY? How many Towables have you purchased? Your sig shows you have a motorhome. MY point is, YOU SPOUT OFF AND HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU ARE STATING. Doug

YA AND THIS IS A MOTORHOME THREAD, BUT TO ANSWER YOU, SIX TOWABLES - THE LAST ONE WAS LAST YEAR AND IT HAD A BATTERY IN IT FROM THE FACTORY ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHERS BEFORE THAT! WEVE ONLY HAD THIS MOTORHOME SINCE MAY - there, could you hear my keyboard? Seems you spend a lot of time in caps trying to make your useless point. Just because the stuff YOUR BOSS orders doesn't come with batteries doesn't mean that is ABSOLUTE for ALL or MOST brands as you like to claim, it just means you don't get out much.

[dougrainer]

Mile High wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

Mile High wrote:

usersmanual wrote:
I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

Nobody is arguing where the power comes for the brakes, but it can't be towed without a battery because of the break away, so you get a cheap battery when it leaves the factory, regardless of how many it is supposed to hold normally.

NONE of our Towables come with batteries from the factory. The Factories do not care about having a battery for the Break away system and neither do the Transport companies. I work (37 years and still do) for a large Towable/motorhome dealer(same dealer for those 37 years). AND, we install Interstate Batteries on ALL our units. Interstate makes about the best battery out there. The reason I mentioned Jayco is because Jayco makes provision for 6 batteries on their 5th wheels with residential and we install all 6(OUR expense, not Jayco's AND NO OEM pays a dealer for the battery install) on those models. All other Towables, we install 1 battery even if there are mounts for 2 or more unless the customer pays for the extra batteries on the deal. Doug

Years ago they did come with CHEAP batteries, but since 2008, they dropped batteries in almost all brands on towables.

Well I can't speak for the brands you sell. I can only speak for the brands I buy, and those factories are a little more conscientious of the law and the risks to other motorists.

Regardless - this whole conversation is going nowhere so everyone can zip up their pants and put the rulers away and we can get back on topic. My point was that in addition to battery quantities, there are battery sizes and even if you have less number of batteries than you think you should have, the batteries themselves may be of a higher series and capacity.

REALLY? How many Towables have you purchased? Your sig shows you have a motorhome. MY point is, YOU SPOUT OFF AND HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU ARE STATING. Doug

[Mile_High]

dougrainer wrote:

Mile High wrote:

usersmanual wrote:
I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

Nobody is arguing where the power comes for the brakes, but it can't be towed without a battery because of the break away, so you get a cheap battery when it leaves the factory, regardless of how many it is supposed to hold normally.

NONE of our Towables come with batteries from the factory. The Factories do not care about having a battery for the Break away system and neither do the Transport companies. I work (37 years and still do) for a large Towable/motorhome dealer(same dealer for those 37 years). AND, we install Interstate Batteries on ALL our units. Interstate makes about the best battery out there. The reason I mentioned Jayco is because Jayco makes provision for 6 batteries on their 5th wheels with residential and we install all 6(OUR expense, not Jayco's AND NO OEM pays a dealer for the battery install) on those models. All other Towables, we install 1 battery even if there are mounts for 2 or more unless the customer pays for the extra batteries on the deal. Doug

Years ago they did come with CHEAP batteries, but since 2008, they dropped batteries in almost all brands on towables.

Well I can't speak for the brands you sell. I can only speak for the brands I buy, and those factories are a little more conscientious of the law and the risks to other motorists.

Regardless - this whole conversation is going nowhere so everyone can zip up their pants and put the rulers away and we can get back on topic. My point was that in addition to battery quantities, there are battery sizes and even if you have less number of batteries than you think you should have, the batteries themselves may be of a higher series and capacity.

[usersmanual]

actually our transport guys supply a break away battery on a fiver and remove it when they deliver. most TT are on a flatbed trailer system
there are some exceptions. As doug said factories don't care but our transport guys definitely do as its illegal in BC and some states not to have the break away system operational

[dougrainer]

Mile High wrote:

usersmanual wrote:
I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

Nobody is arguing where the power comes for the brakes, but it can't be towed without a battery because of the break away, so you get a cheap battery when it leaves the factory, regardless of how many it is supposed to hold normally.

NONE of our Towables come with batteries from the factory. The Factories do not care about having a battery for the Break away system and neither do the Transport companies. I work (37 years and still do) for a large Towable/motorhome dealer(same dealer for those 37 years). AND, we install Interstate Batteries on ALL our units. Interstate makes about the best battery out there. The reason I mentioned Jayco is because Jayco makes provision for 6 batteries on their 5th wheels with residential and we install all 6(OUR expense, not Jayco's AND NO OEM pays a dealer for the battery install) on those models. All other Towables, we install 1 battery even if there are mounts for 2 or more unless the customer pays for the extra batteries on the deal. Doug

Years ago they did come with CHEAP batteries, but since 2008, they dropped batteries in almost all brands on towables.

[usersmanual]

Mile High wrote:

usersmanual wrote:
I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

Nobody is arguing where the power comes for the brakes, but it can't be towed without a battery because of the break away, so you get a cheap battery when it leaves the factory, regardless of how many it is supposed to hold normally.

exactly but as said we always install correct Rv batterys upon arrival (before sale) and will assume most places do or sell the new customer the correct ones before delivery

[Mile_High]

usersmanual wrote:
I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

Nobody is arguing where the power comes for the brakes, but it can't be towed without a battery because of the break away, so you get a cheap battery when it leaves the factory, regardless of how many it is supposed to hold normally.

[usersmanual]

I sell hundreds of trailers each year. They (TT)mostly come on transport trailers. The fivers are towed but the ELECTRIC brakes all and have always run off the transportation vehicle batterys. there will be a small auxiliary battery for the break away system brake ; we always install the required batterys on the PDI we do on every trailer that passes through our RV lot

[Mile_High]

dougrainer wrote:

Mile High wrote:

Winnipeg wrote:
Wow, lots of great advice and opinions. I did find out that Tiffin (and others?) used to add extra batteries with the residential fridge, but in the past few years they (and pretty much all manufacturers) just put in 2@12V. Same thing you can expect in a $15k travel trailer, so much for "high end".

Rather than quantity of batteries, they may have increased the battery size. I know some of the 5ers that started offering a residential fridge went from the initial 3 24 series 12-volt batteries to 2 31 series 12-volt batteries.

OK. Jayco and MOST Trailers do NOT come with batteries. They are installed when they are prepped for delivery. Doug

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said! Trailers are typically shipped with the cheapest 24 series battery the factory can find so the brakes work, but they are DESIGNED for the quantity and size batteries they are engineered for based on equipment and the Dealer is supposed to install the appropriate batteries at Delivery so it is TRANSPARENT to the buyer, unless of course the Dealer is a jerk.

With that, before you went factomadness, - I was simply pointing out that counting batteries is not the only way to determine capacity because there are different size batteries with significant difference in AH ratings. I don't typically give a rats what Jayco does, but some of the higher end 5ers changed the SIZE of the batteries to accommodate residential fridges rather than the QUANTITY of batteries.

[dougrainer]

Mile High wrote:

Winnipeg wrote:
Wow, lots of great advice and opinions. I did find out that Tiffin (and others?) used to add extra batteries with the residential fridge, but in the past few years they (and pretty much all manufacturers) just put in 2@12V. Same thing you can expect in a $15k travel trailer, so much for "high end".

Rather than quantity of batteries, they may have increased the battery size. I know some of the 5ers that started offering a residential fridge went from the initial 3 24 series 12-volt batteries to 2 31 series 12-volt batteries.

OK. Jayco and MOST Trailers do NOT come with batteries. They are installed when they are prepped for delivery. Jayco, the LARGE 5th wheels come prewired(battery cables) for 6- 12 volt batteries when you option the Residential refer. Now Tiffin, Diesel Tiffin's depending on the size motorhome and residential refer will have either 4 or 6 coach batteries. Usually 6 volts, not 12 volts. The Gas model Tiffin's will have the 2- 6 volt batteries in the step well. Yes, it would be best to just buy the Gas Tiffin model and then pay someone to weld/add a steel battery tray under the motorhome as on Gas models you have LOTS of extra space on the frame rails and chassis to do that. Diesel's you do not have that space unless you install the batteries in a storage compartment. IF I boondocked and the Gas model was my ideal, then the added expense for adding the battery trays would not be that big a factor. I would also use AGM batteries to prevent having to crawl under and check battery water. IF you do go AGM, ALWAYS RESET THE BATTERY TYPE ON THE INVERTER/CHARGER FOR AGM BATTERIES. This is something most people forget to do. Forgetting this will destroy your AGM batteries. Expensive mistake. Doug