Quick question about oil changes

[CodyClassB]

I have 2015 Winnie on E350 chassis. We live in southern California and only use our RV 2-3 times a year. We drive a total of less than 500 miles a year.

Question is: is it ok to replace oil every 3-4 years? I know some people think oil needs to change periodically regardless of how many miles you drive, but I don't see any differences whether oil is stored in my truck or in the bottle on the store's shelf waiting to be sold. There are many "rumors" "suggestions" and "theories" about oil. Any scientific evident that says we need to change oil even if we don't drive?

[txnese]

I change oil at least once a year, regardless of miles. Better safe than sorry, especially for $50. I also drive it a few miles once a month and run generator.

[ron_dittmer]

This is how I see it.

Unlike transmissions, engines are designed so that nearly all of the oil drains into the oil pan. In the case of the original poster, how much harm is 500 mile use, 1000 mile use, 1500 mile use, or 2000 mile use motor oil doing sitting in the bottom of the oil pan? While sitting inside the oil pan, how badly is it really depreciating?

It is with that same logic that I change our rig's engine oil just prior to leaving on a long 4000-6000 mile trip. This means the old oil could be in the oil pan for 9 months or longer. In preparing for a long trip like that, I drive the rig to church (a 24 mile round trip) to get the old oil hot and circulate it well about the engine to capture any accumulated moisture. Upon returning home, I immediately drain the old oil hot. I always visually inspect the old oil sitting in the drain pan and while pouring it into a jug for disposal. It never looks unusual or concerning, and there is not one drop of water or indication of moisture seen anywhere. Not in the oil, not in the drain pan, and not a hint of tan goo on the inside of the oil fill cap. If there was a lot of moisture in the engine, a light streak of tan goo could form on the oil fill cap.

This picture shows an extreme amount of tan goo, an indication of a head gasket failure. But a very light streak of tan goo can sometimes be found on the oil fill caps on vehicles that are driven so very little like the original poster. I have never seen a tan goo streak on my own vehicles. Only on vehicles donated where I volunteer. Some vehicles sit outside for a number of years before the owner decides to donate it. I can tell by the aging layers of pine needles accumulated at the base of the wind shield. Sometimes you can count them like tree rings.

[Grit_dog]

Some good info for the OP, like Matt collies write up.
I'm no ex spurt, but in the OPs case, I would change it once a year, tops. And I wouldn't get too wound up if it sat for 2 years.
I don't have the scientific analysis to back it up, but those engines, and most engines are pretty bulletproof and see far worse treatment than letting oil with less than 20 hours on it sit in the engine over the winter.
How much are you reducing the lifespan of an engine that can go 250k miles on the internals generally? I say who cares, if you're driving it 500 miles a year, it'll still last you a long time.
More important though is to start and drive it somewhat regularly. And don't let the fuel get old and varnished up. I've parked vehicles for a year or 2 no start, no special treatment, without issue. I've also gummed up carbs in small engines with bad gas in 6 months or less.
Unless your busy schedule literally doesn't permit it, just driving the thing every few months and testing the fuel right will do the most good.

[pushtoy_2]

Matt_Colie wrote:
OK, Here comes a clear answer for those still reading the thread.

Most engine oil is composed of three different elements:
The actual lubricating oil and added components -like viscosity managers.
Anti-wear additives - ZDDP used to be prime, but now others.
Anti-corrosives - to combat the effects of combustion by products.

Now, Oil does not wear out. If it is largely viscosity managers (What makes XWXX work) those may show some shear-down in use. That is less of an issue with modern oils and engines (why they can live with 0WXX).
The anti-wear additives are prone to oxidation. They are fine in the can, but once exposed to air and combustion by products, they start to get damaged.
The anti-corrosives are there just to deal with the combustion by products that leak past the rings. This stuff is nasty. Left alone, it could rot out a stainless pot. That is the first part of an engine's lubricating oil to be damaged. When that component gets killed, then things go bad in a big hurry.

The last two above are why Mobil with the famous Mobil1 line still pitches annual lube oil changes as a minimum.

What do capital engines (like ships and such) with huge lube oil tanks do? We regularly send samples for analysis and get back information as to what to add to the lubricating oil to keep it in spec. Many actually have chemical treatment systems (sort of like a water softener, but different) to remove chemical contaminates.

Now, that said, if you like your engine and plan (hope) to keep it a long time, change the oil. Learn to do it yourself and buy the lube oil in big jugs and snicker at those that don't know what you now know.

What is this guy???
He was a ship's engineer for a lot of this life, and then came ashore to work and run Detroit engine laboratories until I retired.

Matt

GREAT POST I HAVE SEEN THE INSIDE OF MOTORS THAT HAVE BEEN NOT TAKEN CAR OF..THEY ARE ALL IN A JUNK YARD

[jrobert01]

I change my oil and filter with 5-20 mobile-1 every spring and ever winter sometimes 2000 mi.sometimes 8000 mi.Always use full synthetic Run gen 1Hr. monthly never had any black oil at changes in either.I have done this for years with no problems or oil use.

[Matt_Colie]

OK, Here comes a clear answer for those still reading the thread.

Most engine oil is composed of three different elements:
The actual lubricating oil and added components -like viscosity managers.
Anti-wear additives - ZDDP used to be prime, but now others.
Anti-corrosives - to combat the effects of combustion by products.

Now, Oil does not wear out. If it is largely viscosity managers (What makes XWXX work) those may show some shear-down in use. That is less of an issue with modern oils and engines (why they can live with 0WXX).
The anti-wear additives are prone to oxidation. They are fine in the can, but once exposed to air and combustion by products, they start to get damaged.
The anti-corrosives are there just to deal with the combustion by products that leak past the rings. This stuff is nasty. Left alone, it could rot out a stainless pot. That is the first part of an engine's lubricating oil to be damaged. When that component gets killed, then things go bad in a big hurry.

The last two above are why Mobil with the famous Mobil1 line still pitches annual lube oil changes as a minimum.

What do capital engines (like ships and such) with huge lube oil tanks do? We regularly send samples for analysis and get back information as to what to add to the lubricating oil to keep it in spec. Many actually have chemical treatment systems (sort of like a water softener, but different) to remove chemical contaminates.

Now, that said, if you like your engine and plan (hope) to keep it a long time, change the oil. Learn to do it yourself and buy the lube oil in big jugs and snicker at those that don't know what you now know.

What is this guy???
He was a ship's engineer for a lot of this life, and then came ashore to work and run Detroit engine laboratories until I retired.

Matt

[JRscooby]

Not a well educated guy, but I have some thoughts. On my old Cat, that I worked hard nearly every day I would pull a sample every week, and change filters at about half way between the recommendation with the high dollar synthetic oil. But my pickup, that so far in it's life, averaged less than 6500 miles a year, I run dino, and change every 3 months, or (1 time) 3000 miles. Now I make it a point, every Tuesday, if I drive anywhere I drive the pickup.
Like I say, I don't know much, but I think there is just as much chance that synthetic oil will get contaminated as the other. Condensation, rust, whatever will get in both. Unless you are driving enough miles no gain for the money.

[ron_dittmer]

We store our motor home indoors in a semi-controlled environment, our garage is heated to 60 degrees in winter. So atmospheric humility is minimal.

With the "given" situation, I always use full synthetic 5W-20 oil, and let "miles driven" be the primary factor. I change the oil just before leaving on a long trip in the multi-thousands. Our trips tend to vary between 4000 and 6000 miles.

If driving 500 miles a year and living in a more humid environment, I would change the oil every-other year. If living in a desert climate, I would be less worried about oil changes over time, maybe changing the oil every 4th year assuming the oil continues to look clear on the dipstick.

If you see a cream-colored slime forming on the inside of the oil fill cap, that indicates humidity is forming inside the engine, calling for the need to run the engine til hot, between your short trips, and change the oil more frequently.

[Cobra21]

I only drive ours about 1,000 miles a year. I do a once a year oil change. Ours sits covered for 6 months at a time so it isn't started during that period. I use seafoam for storage in both the engine and gen. No problems in 9 years with this one.
Brian

[RambleOnNW]

I run Mobil 1 EP 5W/20 in the V10 and Mobil 1 0W-40 in the Onan Gen. I will change the V10 oil at 4000 miles and the Onan oil at 50 hours no matter how long it takes. This has been up to 20 months on the V10 and 2-1/2 years on the Onan. Blackstone oil analysis on both showed no issues with either oil change.

I do stick with an all-synthetic filter media on the oil filter for the V10.

I run the MH and gen monthly when not in use and use Stabil in the gas.

[VA-Apraisr]

Filter and 6 quarts of oil....about $40 DIY. Really? Cheap insurance to keep it properly lubed with fresh oil. I change mine about every 2-3K miles due to the simple ease and low costs. Yeah, yeah, overkill on my part but I do a lot of beach driving in salt elements and rather be safer than sorry. A rebuilt engine will cost a whole lot of $$ and labor. Cheapest maintenance you can do for your RV is change the fluids.

[T18skyguy]

Terryallan wrote:

K Charles wrote:
Condensation is not a rumor. Once you take the oil out of the bottle the moisture in the air gets in it.

Just a question mind you. IF the oil is sealed in the engine, with no leaks, and no way to get air in. Does it still condensate?

The engine is not sealed. Its exposed to atmospheric conditions through the engine oil drain holes and some other places. Engines inhale and exhale every day with the changes in temperature, and when it goes below the dew point, condensate forms on the metal which contributes to rust. When the air cools(contracts), it inhales, and when it warms(expands) it exhales. The other thing that happens is the oxygen in the air starts to combine with the oil in a process called oxidation, which changes the properties of the oil in a bad way. When the engine runs, it makes a gallon of water for every gallon of fuel it burns. It's real apparent at startup when the engine is cold, and you see water coming out the tailpipe. The oil is really under attack from a lot of different directions. What it wants to do is form rust and sludge, the two big enemies of our engines.

[pushtoy_2]

carringb wrote:
FWIW - here is Ford's official policy for long-term storage for the E-series:

• Change the engine oil and filter prior to storage because used engine oil contains contaminates which may cause engine damage.
• Start the engine every 15 days for a minimum of 15 minutes. Run at fast idle with the climate controls set to defrost until the engine reaches normal operating temperature.
• With your foot on the brake, shift through all the gears while the engine is running.
• We recommend that you change the engine oil before you use your vehicle again.

That said... I know many folks with V10s that do nothing special for the engine. The generator is the neediest component on the RV, and probably does need special attention to ensure it starts back up.

I so agree i take mine for a drive once a month and run the geni. too.. make sure to put some kind of fuel stabelizer in it and fill the fuel tank all the way. JMO and letting it set so long without driving can sez up ihe brake calapers too..sorry about the spelling

[carringb]

FWIW - here is Ford's official policy for long-term storage for the E-series:

• Change the engine oil and filter prior to storage because used engine oil contains contaminates which may cause engine damage.
• Start the engine every 15 days for a minimum of 15 minutes. Run at fast idle with the climate controls set to defrost until the engine reaches normal operating temperature.
• With your foot on the brake, shift through all the gears while the engine is running.
• We recommend that you change the engine oil before you use your vehicle again.

That said... I know many folks with V10s that do nothing special for the engine. The generator is the neediest component on the RV, and probably does need special attention to ensure it starts back up.