Staying in Coach in Montana Winter

[USMC46]

I have need to reside in my coach this winter in the Bitterroot Valley south of Missoula, or in Missoula. I have located a couple of parks who are open in the winter. Both parks require/suggest having a large external propane tank installed and serviced. I can do that. I have been advised by some that I need to skirt the coach, and by others that I don't need to do that. I would appreciate any suggestions from those who have parked and lived in their coaches during occasional sub-zero weather, and long winters. I have heard that the interior walls will "sweat" due to the cold outside versus warm interior. Is that creating a potential mold problem, and is there a way to prevent that ? Dehumidifier maybe ? Any serious suggestions welcome. Thanks.

[mowermech]

As one who has done it, I have to chuckle at the gloom and doomsayers.
Yes, many years ago we "wintered over" right here in Billings at the Eastwood Estates mobile home/RV park, in a 1988 Suncrest 32 foot motorhome.
I went to Home Depot (or was it Lowes? whatever...) and bought a 100 foot roll of 4 foot wide Reflectix insulation. that is what I used to skirt the coach, cover the grill, and cover the windshield. I held it in place with packing tape. I nailed it to the ground with 6 inch spikes. Of course, I cut holes in it for the water heater exhaust and furnace exhaust.
I do not recommend using hay or straw bales for skirting. either will attract rodents, and presents a pretty fair fire hazard.
I built the water line out of hard copper tubing, then installed heat tape and insulation according to the applicable instructions. I kept the black water drain valve closed until the tank had to be dumped, but left the grey water drain open. the hot water from dishwashing and showers seemed to keep the sewer hose warm enough that no insulation or heat tape was needed.
I went to Costco and bought a 100 pound propane cylinder and hooked it up using the coach regulator and a 12 foot hose. when it got empty, I disconnected it, put the regulator back on the coach tank, and took the big cylinder to Flying J to fill. I did that about every 10 days to 2 weeks, IIRC.
We found that there was a draft at the entrance door, but a thrift store blanket solved that problem. there are pillows available that fit in the roof vents to insulate them. I tried using the clear plastic storm window kits on the inside of the windows, but the glass is so close to the frame that it didn't work very well. Not enough air space between the plastic and the glass.
We had one little 1500 watt ceramic electric heater that we used occasionally for auxiliary heat.
We survived the winter quite well.
a couple years later, we "wintered over" in Billings again, but this time in a 32 foot triple slide Monaco McKenzie fifth wheel, in a mobile home park on 24th st. W. this time, I leased an 80 gallon propan tank, and the supplier came out to fill it. That was MUCH nicer! (I still have the tank attached to our S&B house we bought.) Once again, I built the water line out of hard copper tubing, but this time it had to be nearly 40 feet long! It took a LONG heat tape! Again, I had no trouble with the sewer hose freezing.
Both times, the RV furnace did the job nicely. Both times, the RV frig had no troubles, no matter how cold it was outside. Both times, the lot rent was cheaper than an apartment.
So, yes, based purely on personal experience, it CAN be done, and you CAN be relatively comfortable, and you CAN quite probably save money! Let's see, winterize the RV, and rent an apartment... Right! then you can pay rent and utilities on the apartment, AND, since you won't find an apartment that will allow you to park your RV on the grounds, and you can't leave it parked on the street, you can pay for a storage lot for it, too!
We didn't have much problem with condensation on the interior walls. Of course, I always kept the range hood vent fan going when cooking, and the bathroom roof vent open when showering. those are the two main activities that greatly increase the interior humidity!
The most important thing to do is THINK! Anticipate problems, and be ready to solve them.
Good luck.

[pianotuna]

Well said westernrvparkowner.

[the_silverback]

store the MH and rent an apartment.

[Bill_Satellite]

yrusoslo wrote:
Don't forget the coach itself. Keep engine block heater plugged in, if you don't have one, better get one installed. Have a mechanic add air dry to your air brake system.Make sure your anti freeze is good in coolant system. start adding diesel additive, to the fuel tank way before the winter turns cold.

It you have no plans to start the engine you do not want to keep the engine block heater running. The warmth will cause condensation and rust inside the engine. Your engine anti-freeze will have a sub-zero rating so just ensure you have the right anti-freeze and the right mixture. Do not start the engine unless you are going to be able to drive the coach long enough for everything to come fully up to temperature.

[westernrvparkow]

You would save a boatload of money by winterizing your rig and renting an apartment. Seasonal winter rents for apartments and other lodging are often very low, since the vast majority of Montanans who can get out in the winter, do. Any open park is almost assuredly going to have metered electric and I have heard of RVs running up $500+ electric bills running space heaters, heat tapes and the like on top of their propane costs. Add in the site rental and it is going to easily run you over $1000.00 a month, if nothing goes wrong.
Montana can have three types of winters: Mild, meaning spring will have sprung just about the time you are ready to pack it in. Average, meaning you will be praying for the thaw, but not quite ready to burn the motorhome for heat. And if you are unlucky, a hard winter which would have you negotiating with the devil, because there is no way the heat in hell is any worse than freezing your arse off. In any event, wintering in Montana in an RV is not a set it up and forget it enterprise. You will need to constantly monitor all your water lines, sewer lines, heat tapes, space heaters and the like to insure you don't have a catastrophic failure.

[10forty2]

Any chance to find an indoor storage facility that would let you live in the coach too? Just a thought.... Not sure I'd want to try a -20 to -30 degree winter in a Class A or other temporary structure like it. They just are not designed for it. Good Luck!

[yrusoslo]

Don't forget the coach itself. Keep engine block heater plugged in, if you don't have one, better get one installed. Have a mechanic add air dry to your air brake system.Make sure your anti freeze is good in coolant system. start adding diesel additive, to the fuel tank way before the winter turns cold.

[Bill_Satellite]

Since you are dealing with a Class A motorhome it is unlikely that skirting would do much of anything in the way of keeping you warmer. If you are going to keep the propane heat running at all time when the outside temps are below freezing you will also keep you wet bays warm enough to prevent freezing. However, adding a couple of 150W light bulbs or a small electric heater in that bay can offer some added protection. Often, simply cracking a roof vent ever so slightly can dramatically aide in the reduction of moisture inside the RV. If you have one near the shower that works well. Cooking will also create a lot of moisture in the RV so if your hood vents outside this will be an advantage. If not, open a vent to let the moisture out. You will likely only see moisture accumulate on the glass as the walls should be insulated well enough to prevent condensation. You can use a squeegee on the glass with a towel to catch the water or use a bunch of paper towels or rags to wipe them dry.
Assuming you have good 50 amp service, you will be able to keep some electric heaters in the coach which helps with humidity and cuts down on your propane costs. However, this means that you MUST put some electric heat in the wet bays as the propane heater will not be keeping those areas from freezing. If your fridge has an ice maker, make sure there is not an exposed water line in the back. If there is you are going to need to keep something in that space (or insulate the line) to ensure that stays warm at all times as well.
I spent last Winter in Detroit in a Prevost Bus conversion but had the advantage of diesel heat so the moisture was not as bad as you will find with propane heat but I still had to deal with all of the same issues. We easily survived the terrible cold but it cost us about $700 in diesel fuel to keep it cozy.

[rgatijnet1]

The problem with the humidity is not the outside humidity but the inside humidity. If you take a shower, you put water in the air, unless you want to run the ceiling vent during your shower. If you cook on the stove, more moisture. Just you sitting inside the coach will put some moisture in to the inside air and this is what will condensate on the inside of your windows, especially the windshield. Electric resistance heaters will remove most of this moisture but it can still be a problem if you create a lot of moisture during the day.
It is also a good idea to make sure that your sewer line is put on stands so that it drains completely and does not have any standing water that will freeze. Again, only drain your tanks when they are full and if the sewer line drains completely, frozen waste will not be a problem.

[n7bsn]

RV refers work by transferring the "heat" in the refer to the outside, via the coils in the back. If the temperature outside gets too cold, your refer will stop working, in fact it may freeze up and fail.
Some combat this with a 100watt bulb in the back of the refer.
In Montana you may not need a dehumidifier, it's really dry there in the Bitterroot
The area you are trying doesn't get a cold as out east, like Billings or Great Falls, but it still can get to -20 or -30.
I would skirt, heat the underside, get a large tank, etc, etc

Read the cold-weather sticky.

[pianotuna]

There is a sticky on winter camping under the full time forum.

You need to protect the fridge.

Montana will be a dry cold so a dehumidifier probably won't be needed or useful.

[rgatijnet1]

Skirt it with hay bales to keep the cold air from blowing underneath as well as to keep the snow from piling up underneath your coach.
We only hooked up our water to fill the tanks and only hooked up the sewer lines to drain the tanks.
We used electric space heaters as much as possible which tends to keep the moisture down inside of your coach. We also had a portable AC/heat pump that worked fine at even zero temps but this required a single hose venting to the outside. We had 50 amp service so if you are using 30 amp service, you may be stuck with using propane for most of your heat. An electric blanket also helps to keep you comfortable at night. We have one of the low voltage units that uses very little AC.
If you have dual pane windows, the condensation may not be too much of a problem BUT your windshield is single pane and you may want to put towels at the base to soak up any condensation that accumulates behind the curtain.

[donn0128]

Skirt it. Insulate and heat tape the water hose. Heat the faucet, large propane tank and lots and lots of cash. Couple years ago we wintered in our fiver in Portland area. 25 gallons of gas was not uncommon a week. And it only got down to around 14 for a week or so.

[bgum]

Skirt and run dehumidifier 24/7.