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The Dieselfication of FMC #1046

BigRabbitMan
Explorer
Explorer
A number of you are aware of the project that I have going on with my 1976 FMC as there has been a link to the photo album that follows the project in my signature for some time. I have also done a little posting in the "What have you done to your coach today" ongoing thread.

However, a number of times forum members have requested that I start a thread dedicated to this project. Up to this point I have resisted as the project was going slow for the last year as I also took significant time moving from Dixon, CA to Cottage Grove, OR. Also, there was a lot of prep work being done and that is never as interesting as the actual assembly stuff!

The main story will continue to be told in story board format on the FMC Owners Club website. I don't have the time to tell it twice! What I will be doing is giving periodic updates on this site with a link to that point in the storyboard on the other site. That will keep my writing time in check yet enable RV.net members to follow the project in a timely manner.

I will be happy to answer questions on this site as appropriate. Note that I started this as a two year project and we are now at three years and three months! BUT, I feel it will be worth it when done. It is my goal to have the engine running by June 1 of this year so things will have to move along consistantly from now until complete.

Just to give you a little more feel for the project, I agreed to do it when a friend and fellow FMC owner agreed to help provided that I did it at his house so that he could work on it as time allowed without any driving time involved. For that reason the project is being done in a driveway in Gilroy, CA which is 9 hours from my new home in Oregon! Consequently, I am staying in my coach for a period of time and then will go to Oregon for a period. The time in Oregon will interupt coach work but we can all live with that!

I am going to start this off with a batch of links so that those who want a little more information about FMC coaches can learn a little about them if so desired.

The FMC 1046 project itself.

A video of our Minden, NE rally by the local TV station (I am the squeaking door!!).

Discussion of this project on the FMC Owners website forum.

Thats all for now!

I do encourage you to explore the rally photo albums on the FMC owners website to see that we do indeed drive these coaches and not just work on them! We are having a small rally in Felton, CA next month and one coach will be coming from Denver. Our next large rally will be in Carthage, MO next summer and we will have coaches from all over the US and one or more from Canada.

If you "Subscribe" to this thread, you will be able to stay current without searching for the thread after a period of inactivity while I am in Oregon.

Enjoy,
BigRabbitMan
Gas to Diesel Conversion project
76 FMC #1046, Gas Pusher became a Diesel Pusher
Discussion thread on this site
"You're never too old to learn something stupid."
22 REPLIES 22

wildmanbaker
Explorer
Explorer
Wow, great stats, but there was a 440 holley 2 bdl that was rated at 320 hp, and they were exempt from the Calif. requirements as they were in trucks. The holley was a rather large 2 bdl, spread flange carb. These were sought after by hobby racers, that were limited to a 2 bdl carb. as it was a very large carb with lots of flow. Some big Fords and Gms also used the same carb. You might find the 1974 hps shown, were for insurance purposes, and actually had a bit more power. I forgot, the RB 413 also came with the big 2 bdl, but I'm not sure if it was a holley. These were called industrial engines, and replaced the early A block hemis.
Wildmanbaker

BigRabbitMan
Explorer
Explorer
wildmanbaker wrote:
The hp and torque was what I was referring to. The 440s were known for a flat, lower rpm torque curve. If I remember correctly, a 2bdl 440 had more like 320 hp. With the tbi you were closer to 350. The mileage increase will be worth it. Great picture story of the conversion.


Wildmanbaker, you remember the HP & torque from the mid-sixties! Compare the HP and torque numbers for 1966 to the numbers for 1974 (last four lines). By then due to smog rules, the 440 had been considerably detuned. By the time my coach was built, it was 225-250 hp. Note the California numbers as that is where my coach was built!

Engine/Disp. Carburetion Bore/Stroke Compression Ratio Horsepower @ RPM Torque @ RPM Normal Oil Pressure
1966
6-170 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.125 8.5:1 101 @ 4400 155 @ 2400 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.125 8.4:1 145 @ 4000 215 @ 2400 45-65
V8-273 2-bbl 3.625 x 3.31 8.8:1 180 @ 4200 260 @ 1600 40-65
V8-273 4-bbl 3.625x 3.31 10.5:1 235 @ 5200 280 @ 4000 40-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 9.0:1 230 @ 4400 340 @ 2400 45-65
V8-361 2-bbl 4.125 x 3.375 9.0:1 265 @ 4400 380 @ 2400 45-65
V8-383 2-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 9.2:1 270 @ 4400 390 @ 2800 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 10.0:1 325 @ 4800 425 @ 2800 45-65
V8-426 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.75 10.3:1 365 @ 4800 470 @ 3200 40-60
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1:1 350 @ 4400 480 @ 2800 45-65
1967
6-170 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.125 8.5:1 115 @ 4400 155 @ 2400 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.125 8.4:1 145 @ 4000 215 @ 2400 45-65
V8-273 2-bbl 3.625 x 3.31 8.8:1 180 @ 4200 260 @ 1600 40-65
V8-273 4-bbl 3.625 x 3.31 10.5:1 235 @ 5200 280 @ 4000 40-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 9.2:1 230 @ 4400 340 @ 2400 45-65
V8-361 2-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 9.2:1 270 @ 4400 390 @ 2800 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 10:1 325 @ 4800 425 @ 2800 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1:1 350 @ 4400 480 @ 2800 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1:1 375 @ 4600 480 @ 3200 45-65
V8-426 2x4-bbl 4.25 x 3.75 10.25:1 425 @ 5000 490 @ 4000 40-60
1968
6-170 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.125 8.5:1 115 @ 4400 155 @ 2400 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.125 8.4:1 145 @ 4000 215 @ 2400 45-65
V8-273 2-bbl 3.625 x 3.31 9.0:1 190 @ 4400 260 @ 2000 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 9.2:1 230 @ 4400 340 @ 2400 45-65
V8-340 4-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 10.5:1 275 @ 5000 340 @ 3200 45-65
V8-383 2-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 9.2:1 290 @ 4400 390 @ 2800 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 10.0:1 300 @ 4400 400 @ 2400 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.375 10.0:1 330 @ 5000 425 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1:1 350 @ 4400 480 @ 2800 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1:1 375 @ 4600 480 @ 3200 45-65
V8-426 2x4-bbl 4.25 x 3.75 10.25:1 425 @ 5000 490 @ 4000 40-60
1969
6-170 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.125 8.5:1 115 @ 4400 115 @ 2400 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.125 8.4:1 145 @ 4000 215 @ 2400 45-65
V8-273 2-bbl 3.63 x 3.31 9.0:1 190 @ 4400 260 @ 2000 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 9.2:1 230 @4400 340 @ 2400 45-65
V8-340 4-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 10.5:1 275 @ 5000 340 @ 3200 45-65
V8-383 2-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 9.2:1 290 @ 4400 390 @ 2800 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 10.0:1 330 @ 5000 425 @ 3200 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 10.0:1 335 @ 5000 425 @ 3400 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1:1 350 @ 4400 480 @ 2800 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.1 375 @ 4600 480 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 3x2-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.5:1 390 @ 4700 490 @ 3200 45-65
V8-426 2x4-bbl 4.25 x 3.75 10.25:1 425 @ 5000 490 @ 4000 45-65
1970
6-198 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.64 8.4:1 125 @ 4400 180 @ 2000 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.12 8.4:1 145 @ 4000 215 @ 2400 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 8.8:1 230 @ 4400 320 @ 2000 45-65
V8-340 4-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 10.5:1 275 @ 5000 340 @ 3200 45-65
V8-340 3x2-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 10.2:1 290 @ 5000 340 @ 3200 45-65
V8-383 2-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 8.7:1 290 @ 4400 390 @ 2800 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 9.5:1 330 @ 5000 425 @ 3200 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 9.5:1 335 @ 5200 425 @ 3400 45-65
V8-426 2x4-bbl 4.25 x 3.75 10.2:1 425 @ 5000 490 @ 4000 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 9.7:1 350 @ 4400 480 @ 2800 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 9.7:1 375 @ 4600 480 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 3x2-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.5:1 390 @ 4700 490 @ 3200 45-65
1971
6-198 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.64 8.4:1 125 @ 4400 180 @ 2000 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.12 8.4:1 145 @ 4000 215 @ 2400 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 8.6:1 230 @ 4400 320 @ 2000 45-65
V8-340 4-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 10.2:1 275 @ 5000 340 @ 3200 45-65
V8-360 2-bbl 4.00 x 3.58 8.7:1 255 @ 4400 360 @ 2400 45-65
V8-383 2-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 8.5:1 275 @ 4400 375 @ 2800 45-65
V8-383 4-bbl 4.25 x 3.38 8.5:1 300 @ 4800 410 @ 3400 45-65
V8-426 2x4-bbl 4.25 x 3.75 10.2:1 425 @ 5000 490 @ 4000 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 9.0:1 335 @ 4400 460 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 9.7:1 370 @ 4600 280 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 3x2-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.5:1 385 @ 4700 490 @ 3200 45-65
1972
6-198 1-bbl 3.40 x 3.64 8.4:1 100 @ 4400 160 @ 2400 45-65
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.12 8.4:1 110 @ 4000 185 @ 2000 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 8.6:1 150 @ 4000 260 @ 1600 45-65
V8-340 4-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 8.5:1 240 @ 4800 290 @ 3600 45-65
V8-360 2-bbl 4.00 x 3.58 8.8:1 175 @ 4000 285 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 2-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 190 @ 4400 310 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 4-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 255 @ 4800 340 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 225 @ 4400 345 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 245 @ 4400 360 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 3x2-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 10.3:1 330 @ 4800 410 @ 3600 45-65
1973
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.12 8.4:1 105 @ 4000 185 @ 1600 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 8.6:1 150 @ 3600 265 @ 2000 45-65
V8-340 4-bbl 4.04 x 3.31 8.5:1 240 @ 4800 295 @ 3600 45-65
V8-360 2-bbl 4.00 x 3.58 8.4:1 170 @ 4000 285 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 2-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 185 @ 3600 310 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 4-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 260 @ 4800 335 @ 3600 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 220 @ 3600 350 @ 2400 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 275 @ 4800 380 @ 3200 45-65
1974
6-225 1-bbl 3.40 x 4.12 8.4:1 105 @ 3600 180 @ 1600 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 8.6:1 150 @ 4000 255 @ 2200 45-65
V8-318 2-bbl 3.91 x 3.31 8.6:1 170 @ 4000 265 @ 2600 45-65
V8-360 2-bbl 4.00 x 3.58 8.4:1 180 @ 4000 290 @ 2400 45-65
V8-360 4-bbl 4.00 x 3.58 8.4:1 200 @ 4000 290 @ 3200 45-65
V8-360 4-bbl 4.00 x 3.58 8.4:1 245 @ 4800 320 @ 3600 45-65
V8-400 2-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 185 @ 4000 315 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 4-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 205 @ 4400 310 @ 2400 45-65
V8-400 4-bbl 4.34 x 3.38 8.2:1 250 @ 4800 330 @ 3400 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 230 @ 3600 350 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440
(Calif.) 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 220 @ 3600 345 @ 3200 45-65
V8-440 4-bbl 4.32 x 3.75 8.2:1 275 @ 4400 375 @ 3200 45-65
BigRabbitMan
Gas to Diesel Conversion project
76 FMC #1046, Gas Pusher became a Diesel Pusher
Discussion thread on this site
"You're never too old to learn something stupid."

wildmanbaker
Explorer
Explorer
The hp and torque was what I was referring to. The 440s were known for a flat, lower rpm torque curve. If I remember correctly, a 2bdl 440 had more like 320 hp. With the tbi you were closer to 350. The mileage increase will be worth it. Great picture story of the conversion.
Wildmanbaker

BigRabbitMan
Explorer
Explorer
Today's pictures on page 18.

That picture takes you to a photo of the engine very close to its final location. At the end of next week the motor and transmission mounts will have been designed. The engine will then come back out while welding is done to the frame to prepare for permanent insersion.

While the engine is out, some things will be done to it while convenient.
BigRabbitMan
Gas to Diesel Conversion project
76 FMC #1046, Gas Pusher became a Diesel Pusher
Discussion thread on this site
"You're never too old to learn something stupid."

BigRabbitMan
Explorer
Explorer
A few more pictures are posted in the photo album. This link will take you to page 17.

The engine has started to move into what will be its position in the coach.
BigRabbitMan
Gas to Diesel Conversion project
76 FMC #1046, Gas Pusher became a Diesel Pusher
Discussion thread on this site
"You're never too old to learn something stupid."

BigRabbitMan
Explorer
Explorer
wildmanbaker wrote:
You should see a great improvement in fuel mileage. I am wondering if you will notice much difference if drive ability.


Based on the experiences of other FMC's that have been converted to other diesel engines, I expect that my mileage will go from 7.5mpg to about 12mpg. I am crossing my fingers and want be surprised when it goes even higher due to the efficencies of this engine relative to engines from the '90's and earlier.

There are basically two aspects to driveability: One is how it accelerates onto the highway and up mountain grades (I live in the West!). The other is how stable the steering is on a crowned road and in cross winds, etc..

The first one is a given as HP will go from 225 to 360 and torque from 350 to 650 ft.lbs.

The second one is what I believe you are refering to in your post. The first thing to understand is that these coaches were originally built to handle very well. A key feature that helps with this is that it has 4 wheel independent suspention. That means that the differential does not move up and down - it is locked into position and is attached to the same frame members as the engine. This enables a very short driveline (6 inches in this case) which then enables the rear wheels to be moved closer to the rear than is possible with virtually any other coach.

That said, I AM adding weight behind the rear wheels. Due to all the aluminum, the Duramax is about 150 lbs more than the Chrysler 440-I that was removed. The Allison transmission is about 200 lbs more than the original Load-flite three speed. I had previously replaced the Load-flite with an Allison 540 so my transmission weight is very similar to what has been in the coach.

This is the lightest diesel conversion that can be done to this coach! However, if necessary, I am prepared to do a little rebalancing of the unit. Others with heavier engines, have been able to maintain the historic FMC handling after a little rebalancing.

You asked a very important question and one that I explored extensively prior to starting this project.
BigRabbitMan
Gas to Diesel Conversion project
76 FMC #1046, Gas Pusher became a Diesel Pusher
Discussion thread on this site
"You're never too old to learn something stupid."

wildmanbaker
Explorer
Explorer
You should see a great improvement in fuel mileage. I am wondering if you will notice much difference if drive ability.
Wildmanbaker

JimM68
Explorer
Explorer
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2008 Monaco Knight 40skq, moho #2
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