Top of line Gasser Vs. bottom of line Diesel Pusher

[Mondooker]

Since joining the forum I've asked a lot of questions and received great answers. And when asking questions about something new, other questions come up.

One recommendation I received was buying a newer model Gasser instead of an older model DP. This is my first motorhome and I want something around 40 feet and want to spend no more than $100,000.00.

As I'm looking at used upper model Gassers, which i'd not done before, like Tiffin Allegro and Newmar Canyon Star. I found that the base models of Diesel Pushers are around the same price.

My question is "what's a better move for a new-be, a top of the line used Gasser or the used base model Diesel Pusher"?

Your help has been invaluable, thanks you!

[Blaster_Man]

The problem with threads of this nature is that we get posts from those who own gassers and have never owned a DP, and posts from DP owners who have never owned a gasser.

I've owned both and would never go back to a gasser. The benefits of a DP have already been listed, so I won't do it again.

[enblethen]

Ivylog is saying the same thing that I brought up early on!

[Tom_N]

Ivylog wrote:
Not many gassers over 37' as that's about the max weight for a V10.
PS: you will not find a bath and a half in a gasser.:B

I'm not a Ford chassis advocate but the largest Ford motorhome chassis has a GVWR of 26,000# and a GCWR of 30,000#. And, Winnebago makes a gas chassised coach with a bath and a half.

[JetAonly]

Depends on what homey is, I guess. Tiles floors, cherry cabinetry, endless hot water, storage for all your stuff, tows 10k, 8.3 mpg no towed, 7.3 with a Silverado n tow and etc. We full timed for 17 months in our 40' Dynasty. Waay less than $100k when I bought it as our first Class A. Down side is single rear axle and one slide.

[Mondooker]

Ivylog you sure pay attention! You are exactly right and have been a great help to me!

[Ivylog]

Having followed the OP for the month he's been on here he's come a long way, but unless you have read his posts you do not know
The MH is for half time use and they will winter in their Fla home.
He's come from a 34' without a toad to a 39+ with a toad.
She is not as enthused about this first RV and can you make it homier?
He wants to try this sport by spending $100K so even after a year if she does not like it... they are out less than $20K.
If they like it then I think he is willing to spend a lot more.
I'm guessing that if they like this sport they could be doing it for 20 years.

The problems I sense are:
They have never RVed before and he is a lot more excited about all of this than she.
Unless the rig has plenty of creature comforts she may not like it.
As this post has proved, there is always a spirited debate about gas and DP MHs and now even a GP (gas pusher)... NOT. All you need to know is it uses the same tranny as a PU.
This may be where she is going to have twice the husband on 1/2 the money and in 1/10th the space... fortunately for only half the year in 1/0th the space.

My suggestion at this point is THEY need to go and sit in a bunch of different MHs which should be easy to do living on the Gulf coast of Florida. Look at how much storage it has and how many gallons of fuel and water it holds. At the end of two rainy days, does the floor plan still work?

Good Luck.

[-Gramps-]

moisheh wrote:
The workhorse is a true orphan. They are gone and there is zero support from the new owners. The UFO was a sales dud and when it comes time to sell there will be few takers. Using the words good brakes and Workhorse in the same sentence is almost an insult to Workhorse owners who have endured some of the worst brakes un RV history. I would not believe anything Workhorse wrote. Although parts for the W series Workhorse are still available I wonder if parts for the UFO brake system can be found.

Moisheh

Actually, the new owners do support my coach. The brakes you refer to were made by Bosch, mine are made by Meritor who still makes brakes, mostly for schoolbuses. I would think those are good. Also if my coach has Hydraulic pump or other brake failure ...the coach will stop dead in its tracks just after the coach computer automatically senses the failure and warns that the auto park system is going to engage. I can still stop with the pedal as well but the coach assists.

I can get parts and tech documents. There are hundreds of WH service centers, including ones that are good with my Chassis. I have been to two in the mid atlantic area and both do good work.
I am close friends with the President of the Workhorse Chassis Owners club and he keeps me in the loop with all things WH. The new owners want to bring a good gas chassis back on the market soon and the gas buyers sure should have more than one choice don't you think?

Lets agree to get back on subject...I didn't mean to hijack the OP's thread.

[moisheh]

The workhorse is a true orphan. They are gone and there is zero support from the new owners. The UFO was a sales dud and when it comes time to sell there will be few takers. Using the words good brakes and Workhorse in the same sentence is almost an insult to Workhorse owners who have endured some of the worst brakes un RV history. I would not believe anything Workhorse wrote. Although parts for the W series Workhorse are still available I wonder if parts for the UFO brake system can be found. Read this thread and then tell me you would like to have a UFO!!!!!!!


UFO Brakes
BTW: There were voluntary recalls on the clutch fan and water pump. But this was done on a case by case basis. Over the years there has been a few rear end gas jobs. None of them worked properly.
Moisheh

[Mr_Mark1]

-Gramps- wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:

-Gramps- wrote:
Don,

I have owned the coach for nine years. It may have cost more than most gas buyers wanted to spend, the marketing may have not worked but the design is very good. There are hundreds of them still on the road (not that you would know if you saw one), very few are for sale anywhere because most owners keep them. I met an owner of a Winnie UFO yesterday. He pulled in from Roanoke on his way to Key West. Loves his GP.

My coach is 39.5 feet long, 22.5 tires, tows 10,000 lbs Allison 2000 tranny, and climbs a 7 percent grade faster than most motorhomes or trucks. It also has a computer controlled counter-weighted torsion box suspension that keeps it upright on tight curves. It has quad piston pressurized brakes and it will stop faster from 60 to 0 than a dp the same size.

Gramps, I think a Gas Pusher is a neat idea and I'm glad that you like yours.

But, a 60 to 0 stop comparison has to be done by weight, not size.

Our 45 ft. DP has a 'retarder' with 6 speeds. Most other DP'ers will have a 2 or 3 speed jake brake. The six speed retarder is stronger.

You will not find a 55,500 lb. gasser like our DP. We can stop extremely quick for our weight when using our 6 speed retarder, it has automatic activation when using the service brakes.

MM.

I was referring to same weight rating, poor choice of words I guess. I am not going to compare my coach to a 55,000 lb high end diesel anymore than I would compare a 325hp entry level diesel to a Road Trek class B. Its not apples to apples

Maybe this article might be interesting to you.
Its one of the reasons I purchased the UFO and the brakes have saved me more than once. I also have a grade brake...meaning when the grade brake is turned on, when going downhill I can tap the break pedal, the brakes do not engage, the transmission downshifts instead.

Union City, November 28, 2006 -- The conventional wisdom is that the air brakes on a rear diesel pusher motor home can beat anything mechanical found on a gas-powered motor home. If you want the best in stopping power, that's the way to go.

This is among the assumptions the new Workhorse UFO™ chassis has just shattered. Test data indicates the Workhorse UFO™ HPB Quadraulic™ four-wheel anti-lock disc brakes are superior to the competition's air brakes.

Results from head to head tests performed at the Bosch Proving Grounds in South Bend, Ind., have been released by Workhorse Custom Chassis. They show the Workhorse UFO™ coming to a complete stop more than a coach length sooner from 60 mph than the competition's rear diesel pusher.

Here are the facts:

" Coach on Workhorse UFO™ 26,000 lb. GVWR loaded to 26,000 lb.: Stopping distance, 60 mph to 0 mph, 189 feet.
" Similar coach on competitor's 28,000 lb. GVWR rear diesel pusher with air brakes and loaded to 26,000 lbs.: Stopping distance, 60 mph to 0 mph, 238 feet.

Difference: Workhorse UFO™ stopped 49 feet sooner.

"RVers driving big rigs want brakes they can trust to perform well in all kinds of weather and other conditions,"? said Bob Wert, Workhorse vice president of sales and marketing. "They haven't been mentioned much, but the stopping power and car-like touch of the Workhorse UFO™ brakes are some of the persuasive attributes for anyone who drives this chassis."?

Workhorse Custom Chassis

Workhorse Custom Chassis is ISO 9001 certified and a leader in the manufacture of chassis for motor homes, walk-in trucks and buses. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of International Truck and Engine Corporation. International produces IC brand school buses, school bus chassis, mid-range diesel engines, International brand medium and heavy trucks, and severe service vehicles. International also provides parts and service sold under the International® brand. Both Workhorse and International are subsidiaries of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE: NAV). For additional information call 877-294-6773 or visit Workhorse.com.
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It might be nice if the workhorse could start back as there may be a market for them.

Are the quad piston brakes hydraulic? The thing that bothers me about hydraulic brakes is that when there is a failure, hydraulic brakes have no stopping power.

Air brakes, when they fail, will stop you dead in your tracks.

MM.

[conmoto]

We made the move from a Monaco DP to a Canyon Star gasser and have found the newer gas floorplans to be very comfortable. WE have lived fulltime in ours now for the last 6 months and are quite happy. It is all in the floorplan and how you plan to use it.

[fortytwo]

You'll live in it more hours than you'll drive it. Gas or diesel, go for a high end model (everyone makes entry level "weekend" models with interiors that won't hold up to full time use). If you need to tow over 5,000 pounds diesel is the only realistic option. Any engine can have a problem, but most don't! Rarely will the house part outlast the engine since the V-10 came on the scene. Maintained RV engines that fail are really, really rare. Gas trannys will probably need rebuild/replacement around 150k miles. All carry more fuel than your butt can sit in the seat.

Check to see what you lose access to when the slides are in.

If your choice takes you back to 8-10 old rigs consider that, while the chassis components, gas or diesel, will be mostly good (except belts, hoses) the reefer, furnace, a/c's, water heater, etc will be at or beyond "half life" so budget for replacements. Refrigerator replacement usually involves going through the windshield! Tires over 5 years are high risk.

Starting year 52 with over 400k miles of RV'ing.

[RayChez]

-Gramps- wrote:

the silverback wrote:
Lots of talk here!! How about getting the floor plan that best suits your needs. than worry about gas or DP.

Very wise advice.

But that is not what the original poster was asking. He is not asking about floor plans. He is asking which is better a low end diesel pusher or a high end gasoline motor home. DIESEL ALL THE WAY!

[RayChez]

I would take a low end diesel over a high end gasoline motor home any day. The chassis alone on the diesel pusher would sway me towards the diesel. It just handles so much better then the best gasoline motor homes made.

[Fla_Tom1]

Gramps I have not commented before but quoting sales propiganda? I think a rear engine gas coach would be a great platform but did they test 4 wheel disc ufo agaimst a 4 wheel disc diesel (or was the diesel front disc rear drum) the quoted article did not say. I am sure your coach is great but I don't trust manufactureres pr articles

[-Gramps-]

Mr.Mark wrote:

-Gramps- wrote:
Don,

I have owned the coach for nine years. It may have cost more than most gas buyers wanted to spend, the marketing may have not worked but the design is very good. There are hundreds of them still on the road (not that you would know if you saw one), very few are for sale anywhere because most owners keep them. I met an owner of a Winnie UFO yesterday. He pulled in from Roanoke on his way to Key West. Loves his GP.

My coach is 39.5 feet long, 22.5 tires, tows 10,000 lbs Allison 2000 tranny, and climbs a 7 percent grade faster than most motorhomes or trucks. It also has a computer controlled counter-weighted torsion box suspension that keeps it upright on tight curves. It has quad piston pressurized brakes and it will stop faster from 60 to 0 than a dp the same size.

Gramps, I think a Gas Pusher is a neat idea and I'm glad that you like yours.

But, a 60 to 0 stop comparison has to be done by weight, not size.

Our 45 ft. DP has a 'retarder' with 6 speeds. Most other DP'ers will have a 2 or 3 speed jake brake. The six speed retarder is stronger.

You will not find a 55,500 lb. gasser like our DP. We can stop extremely quick for our weight when using our 6 speed retarder, it has automatic activation when using the service brakes.

MM.

I was referring to same weight rating, poor choice of words I guess. I am not going to compare my coach to a 55,000 lb high end diesel anymore than I would compare a 325hp entry level diesel to a Road Trek class B. Its not apples to apples

Maybe this article might be interesting to you.
Its one of the reasons I purchased the UFO and the brakes have saved me more than once. I also have a grade brake...meaning when the grade brake is turned on, when going downhill I can tap the break pedal, the brakes do not engage, the transmission downshifts instead.

Union City, November 28, 2006 -- The conventional wisdom is that the air brakes on a rear diesel pusher motor home can beat anything mechanical found on a gas-powered motor home. If you want the best in stopping power, that's the way to go.

This is among the assumptions the new Workhorse UFO™ chassis has just shattered. Test data indicates the Workhorse UFO™ HPB Quadraulic™ four-wheel anti-lock disc brakes are superior to the competition's air brakes.

Results from head to head tests performed at the Bosch Proving Grounds in South Bend, Ind., have been released by Workhorse Custom Chassis. They show the Workhorse UFO™ coming to a complete stop more than a coach length sooner from 60 mph than the competition's rear diesel pusher.

Here are the facts:

" Coach on Workhorse UFO™ 26,000 lb. GVWR loaded to 26,000 lb.: Stopping distance, 60 mph to 0 mph, 189 feet.
" Similar coach on competitor's 28,000 lb. GVWR rear diesel pusher with air brakes and loaded to 26,000 lbs.: Stopping distance, 60 mph to 0 mph, 238 feet.

Difference: Workhorse UFO™ stopped 49 feet sooner.

"RVers driving big rigs want brakes they can trust to perform well in all kinds of weather and other conditions,"? said Bob Wert, Workhorse vice president of sales and marketing. "They haven't been mentioned much, but the stopping power and car-like touch of the Workhorse UFO™ brakes are some of the persuasive attributes for anyone who drives this chassis."?

Workhorse Custom Chassis

Workhorse Custom Chassis is ISO 9001 certified and a leader in the manufacture of chassis for motor homes, walk-in trucks and buses. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of International Truck and Engine Corporation. International produces IC brand school buses, school bus chassis, mid-range diesel engines, International brand medium and heavy trucks, and severe service vehicles. International also provides parts and service sold under the International® brand. Both Workhorse and International are subsidiaries of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE: NAV). For additional information call 877-294-6773 or visit Workhorse.com.
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