Two Surge Protectors?

[Jim_Norman]

I have a Plug-In Surge Protector.
My new Coach has a built in Surge Protector.
So Can I use both?
Does it make a better protective system?
Will it even work?
Are there any issues?
Can this cause a problem?

Thanks

[westom]

Mile High wrote:
I for one don't understand a **** thing you are saying or recommending.

Surge Guard will 'absorb' 870 joules and not more than 1750 joules. If difficult, best is to ask why rather than post an emotion.

Potentially destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. Why is that difficult?

That Surge Guard is electrically similar to other tiny power strip protectors. Specification numbers say so. Why is that hard?

Effective protector (a completely different device that unfortunately shares a same name) works because it is earthed. That should be obvious using concepts originally taught in elementary school science.

So which sentence is a challenge? You never said.

[Mile_High]

westom wrote:

Jim Norman wrote:
My built in unit is a Surge Guard 41260, protects to 2600 joules,

So that Surge Guard will 'absorb' 870 joules and not more than 1750 joules. Potentially destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules (clearly not billions of joules). That Surge Guard is electrically similar to other tiny power strip protectors. Effective protector works because it is earthed. And does not 'block' or 'absorb' a surge.

What was posted previously completely applies. Especially the part about how a protector must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth to protect from that type of anomaly. What happens when its near zero joules try to 'absorb' that energy? Those numbers should cause you pause.

I for one don't understand a **** thing you are saying or recommending. Maybe everyone else understands, but I'm in the dark.

[westom]

Jim Norman wrote:
My built in unit is a Surge Guard 41260, protects to 2600 joules,

So that Surge Guard will 'absorb' 870 joules and not more than 1750 joules. Potentially destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules (clearly not billions of joules). That Surge Guard is electrically similar to other tiny power strip protectors. Effective protector works because it is earthed. And does not 'block' or 'absorb' a surge.

What was posted previously completely applies. Especially the part about how a protector must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth to protect from that type of anomaly. What happens when its near zero joules try to 'absorb' that energy? Those numbers should cause you pause.

[pianotuna]

Since a lightning bolt may exceed 4 billion joules, you won't be protected from that.

Jim Norman wrote:
My built in unit is a Surge Guard 41260, protects to 2600 joules, my plug in unit is also a Surge Guard, I believe it protects to 3650 joules. I know the plug in unit works as it has caught issues at the post in a couple instances. I would appreciate learned commentary on these units singularly and in use together.

[Jim_Norman]

My built in unit is a Surge Guard 41260, protects to 2600 joules, my plug in unit is also a Surge Guard, I believe it protects to 3650 joules. I know the plug in unit works as it has caught issues at the post in a couple instances. I would appreciate learned commentary on these units singularly and in use together.

[Jim_Norman]

westom wrote:

Jim Norman wrote:
I have a Plug-In Surge Protector.
My new Coach has a built in Surge Protector.

Those are completely different devices for completely different anomalies (as a few have noted). A 'surge' addressed by a built in protector does not do and cannot protect from a type of surge that so plug-in protectors are suppose to protect from.

What does that plug-in protector do? It claims to 'absorb' how many joules? Hundreds or a thousand? That type of destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules. So what happens when its near zero joules try to 'absorb' that energy? Those numbers should cause you pause.

If your built in protector was one that attaches at the pole, then it has a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground via that pole. If farther from earth ground, it does not effectively protect from that hundreds of thousands of joules. It only protects from those other anomalies.

An 'attach at the pole' built in protector would protect that power strip. Without a low impedance connection to earth, then that power strip remains at risk.

So what is the risk? A hundreds joule surge is routinely converted by electronics into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors. What that power strip protector might do is already done better inside appliances. Sometimes, an adjacent plug-in protector can compromise better protection inside appliances.

In rare cases, a near zero protector (too few joules) can fail catastrophically (create fire). A cruise ship may confiscate it if found in luggage. Threat is rare but serious enough that many do not use plug-in protectors unless protected by that other 'connected low impedance to earth ground' protector.

Only answers tempered by numbers deserve attention. Read spec numbers for a built in protector to identify anomalies it addresses. Read spec numbers for that plug-in protector (especially joules) to identify the so little it really does. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. How much did you spend for that near zero protect function?

I am not sure that you saw my updated post regarding the SurgeGuard protector. If I am reading your post correctly you took me to mean I had a little power strip protector. I understand exactly where you are coming from. I plan on using my Primary, plug into the pole SurgeGuard in line with the on board unit, especially until I can confirm the on board units specifications. I do thank you for the clarifying post a there may be more than a few that would think a simple plug in power strip would do.

[Mile_High]

luvlabs wrote:
Tiffin uses a transfer switch with some surge protection. It is a very basic system. It is recommended that you add a more comprehensive EMS (Electrical Management System) that also monitors ground state, high and low voltages, polarity, etc. The Progressive HW50c or PT50c are two units that will do the job. The HW is built in, the PT is portable.

I've had a HW50c combined with the Tiffin transfer switch on two different coaches and it has worked well. Best thing is that it has a lifetime warranty.

It just seems to me a better option would be to upgrade the onboard system with a Surge Guard 40350 for another $100 over the PT50c which does everything the PT50C does, but then you don't have to mess with a portable anymore or risk getting it stolen.

[bullydogs1]

All I know is despite the fact the Entegra does have one..I have another one and I use it religiously...it has saved me from at least 3 bad posts with open neutral's or a bad ground....as well as two spikes...to me...priceless..

[luvlabs]

Tiffin uses a transfer switch with some surge protection. It is a very basic system. It is recommended that you add a more comprehensive EMS (Electrical Management System) that also monitors ground state, high and low voltages, polarity, etc. The Progressive HW50c or PT50c are two units that will do the job. The HW is built in, the PT is portable.

I've had a HW50c combined with the Tiffin transfer switch on two different coaches and it has worked well. Best thing is that it has a lifetime warranty.

[westom]

Jim Norman wrote:
I have a Plug-In Surge Protector.
My new Coach has a built in Surge Protector.

Those are completely different devices for completely different anomalies (as a few have noted). A 'surge' addressed by a built in protector does not do and cannot protect from a type of surge that so plug-in protectors are suppose to protect from.

What does that plug-in protector do? It claims to 'absorb' how many joules? Hundreds or a thousand? That type of destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules. So what happens when its near zero joules try to 'absorb' that energy? Those numbers should cause you pause.

If your built in protector was one that attaches at the pole, then it has a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground via that pole. If farther from earth ground, it does not effectively protect from that hundreds of thousands of joules. It only protects from those other anomalies.

An 'attach at the pole' built in protector would protect that power strip. Without a low impedance connection to earth, then that power strip remains at risk.

So what is the risk? A hundreds joule surge is routinely converted by electronics into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors. What that power strip protector might do is already done better inside appliances. Sometimes, an adjacent plug-in protector can compromise better protection inside appliances.

In rare cases, a near zero protector (too few joules) can fail catastrophically (create fire). A cruise ship may confiscate it if found in luggage. Threat is rare but serious enough that many do not use plug-in protectors unless protected by that other 'connected low impedance to earth ground' protector.

Only answers tempered by numbers deserve attention. Read spec numbers for a built in protector to identify anomalies it addresses. Read spec numbers for that plug-in protector (especially joules) to identify the so little it really does. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. How much did you spend for that near zero protect function?

[edatlanta]

Bob & Ann wrote:
Jim
Yes you can use both. I checked with both the coach manufacturer and surge protector manufacturer. Typically your built in unit will not do all that you need it to. The second surge protector just makes for smart business. If there is a power problem that burns up your portable unit nothing in you coach is harmed. Just throw it away, buy a new one and continue on with your trip.

Or if it is a lifetime warranty product such as my PI EMS PT50C, you just send it in and they replace or repair it under the lifetime warranty. This happened to me this past September. My PT50C saved me from a surge caused by a lightning strike to a nearby tree. One leg of the PT50C would not operate. I always carry a spare PT50C so I put it in service and everything worked fine. Sent the dead one back to PI and received a replacement within a week. The original unit had been in full time service since 2011.

[pianotuna]

I prefer autoformers to surge devices.

[Jim_Norman]

Thank you all for the quick and well thought out responses. I believe until I can do a little more research on the built in unit I will use both. I have the 50amp Surge Guard portable. It has worked well so far. Again, Thank you all.

[Desert_Captain]

I travel with two but only use one at a time. I started out with a Progressive Industries simple surge protector {as that is all it does - about $100}. A couple of years later I upgraded to their EMS system that provides much more protection (about $300}.

With the EMS system I am protected against voltage falling too low or going to high vs simple surge protection. I use EMS as my primary device but keep the old simple surge suppressor for use as a back up in the event my EMS grows legs. I also have loaned the surge suppressor to a number of folks who had nothing and they were glad to have it.

Can't think of reason to part with the surge protector, nice to have a back up.

:C

[Dale_Traveling]

Call it suspenders and a belt.