v10 torque vrs diesel

[tres_perros]

Hello folks

I have been looking for a used class A leaning towards a diesel as I plan on towing a Jeep and travel west coast, rockies

Evidentially I am told that the newer V10 fords have very similar torque range ( a model change with an extra valve)

So Id love to hear some opinions regarding this, including if maintenance/warranty contracts are any cheaper...

Thanks ahead of time! This is a great forum and has been very helpful

Keith

[nevadanick]

Correct me if i am wrong but i was to understand that torque is what moves you and horsepower is what you feel.

[Cloud_Dancer]

DanTheRVMan wrote:

Cloud Dancer wrote:


I probably know more about the horsepower formula than most people here.

HP= torque x rpm/5252

It is a very simple formula

exactly what is so difficult to understand :h

increase torque you increase HP

increase rpm you increase HP

Yet you continue to infer that only torque is important. :h

That makes no sense.

Well, I'll just settle that right now. I most definitely do NOT, DO NOT, want "to infer that ONLY torque is important".
But, obviously I am a big fan of big, low-rpm diesel engines (and their standard design characteristics). And, for the purpose of selecting a diesel engine for DP motorhomes, I only ask to see the torque curve. But, it's because that is all I MYSELF need. Everyone else can use whatever method they think is best for them.

Yes, the horsepower formula is simple (the way you presented it). But, I enjoy knowing how it came to be derived (the history of it).
And, I enjoy converting engine torque into force of propulsion. There's several "basic physics" formulae which incorporate FORCE.

[Dale_Traveling]

tres perros wrote:
Hello folks

I have been looking for a used class A leaning towards a diesel as I plan on towing a Jeep and travel west coast, rockies

Evidentially I am told that the newer V10 fords have very similar torque range ( a model change with an extra valve)

So Id love to hear some opinions regarding this, including if maintenance/warranty contracts are any cheaper...

Thanks ahead of time! This is a great forum and has been very helpful

Keith

A Ford V10 chassis will pull your Jeep over the Rockies without a problem. You may not do it a 55+ MPH on the higher grades but you'll make it. The problem you'll run into with a modern gas chassis is the 5k lbs. tow limit. No safe way around it. If you think you will need to break thru the 5K limit then go with a diesel which will take you up to 10K lbs. Above 10K you’re looking at the Super C class.

A diesel chassis has other benefits such as improved ride comfort, less power train noise due to location and such. I can't directly address maintenance cost since I'm a gas owner but from what I've read stick to the schedule.

Good luck with your search. My recommendation, if you budget can support get a diesel if not for the tow limit for the ride comfort.

[litespeed]

There is another variable that seldom gets mentioned in these endless gas vbs diesel rants.Diesels appear to be able to run at a higher percentage of their max rpm/hp numbers..without any distress than gas motors. my 8.9 diesel makes max power around 2200 rpm and is able to turn 2500 rpm...when going downhill...with the jake brake on..But it will run at 1800 rpm...i think forever.

A big gas engine with a power peak at 5000 rpm..would not be too happy running at 4000 rpm ......

[Cloud_Dancer]

James Watt, the inventor of the horsepower formula, discovered that the average horse(used in mining industry) was found to be equal to 746 watts. Therefore, horsepower is equal to Power divided by 746. (746 became a constant in solving for horsepower).
He's the guy that took the first type of steam engine(linear motion), and figured out a way to turn it into an engine that produced torque (via a connecting rod attached to a crankshaft).

[DanTheRVMan]

Cloud Dancer wrote:


I probably know more about the horsepower formula than most people here.

HP= torque x rpm/5252

It is a very simple formula

exactly what is so difficult to understand :h

increase torque you increase HP

increase rpm you increase HP

Yet you continue to infer that only torque is important. :h

That makes no sense.

[427435]

Cloud Dancer wrote:

427435 wrote:
Actually, Cloud Dancer, to calculate hp you need 3 things---------force, distance, and time.

Remember that even a small gas engine (10 hp?) can move a big load uphill if it has enough gear reduction------------it might take a day or two, but it will get uphill.

I forgive you. You don't know me.
I probably know more about the horsepower formula than most people here.
And, with all due respect, the little engine doing all that heavy lifting by using some serious gear reduction might be cute, but it's irrelevant.

I look for ways to assist a real person attempting to select a motorhome, and suitable engine for it,......first.
Then, I try to have fun with you guys.
I think the OP was satisfied some time back.
BTW I think people should read what Gale Banks has to say about WHY the bigger diesel engines have to "made for torque". He explains it better than we have time to do (or could).

You may know more than many on this forum about the hp formula, but I could well be an exception to that. I spent a good share of my professional life working with large diesel engines and diesel powered equipment---------as well as some personal hot-rodding stuff.

Again, a 300 hp diesel engine won't climb a hill faster than a 300 hp gas engine moving the same load----------at least at altitudes under 3000 ft. Turbocharged engines (gas or diesel) do have advantages at higher altitudes.

The small gas engine is not irrelevant------------it serves to prove the point about the differences between hp and torque.

[wny_pat1]

427435 wrote:
Actually, Cloud Dancer, to calculate hp you need 3 things---------force, distance, and time.

Remember that even a small gas engine (10 hp?) can move a big load uphill if it has enough gear reduction------------it might take a day or two, but it will get uphill.

With 72 to 1 gear reduction, almost anything is possible. My old 900 lb, 8hp, tractor would pull 4000 pounds across level ground, and that is not rolling weight.

[Cloud_Dancer]

427435 wrote:
Actually, Cloud Dancer, to calculate hp you need 3 things---------force, distance, and time.

Remember that even a small gas engine (10 hp?) can move a big load uphill if it has enough gear reduction------------it might take a day or two, but it will get uphill.

I forgive you. You don't know me.
I probably know more about the horsepower formula than most people here.
And, with all due respect, the little engine doing all that heavy lifting by using some serious gear reduction might be cute, but it's irrelevant.

I look for ways to assist a real person attempting to select a motorhome, and suitable engine for it,......first.
Then, I try to have fun with you guys.
I think the OP was satisfied some time back.
BTW I think people should read what Gale Banks has to say about WHY the bigger diesel engines have to "made for torque". He explains it better than we have time to do (or could).

[427435]

Actually, Cloud Dancer, to calculate hp you need 3 things---------force, distance, and time.

Remember that even a small gas engine (10 hp?) can move a big load uphill if it has enough gear reduction------------it might take a day or two, but it will get uphill.

[mdprince]

Cloud Dancer wrote:
It's silly to say that torque is not power. If you can say that torque can be a very powerful utility, is that OK? If I apply a cheater pipe to my wrench for the purpose of unscrewing a nut, is that not power? I know it's not horsepower(book definition), unless you use a horse that delivers 745 watts of power to turn the wrench, but it's power alright.
Horsepower is an invention which was inspired by an engine which was running, and was producing torque. Mr. Watt derived the horsepower formula, for several reasons, and it has become a standard in many applications,....including for advertising the power of enignes, by manufacturers.
IMO the confusion comes when we try to describe the torque which is produced by an engine that's running. Most people believe you have to take the torque AND the RPM, and inject it into the "textbook" horsepower formula in order to do the calculations that describe amount of work done, OR expected.
Yet, it can be shown that JUST the torque value of an engine, at any given RPM, can be used to calculate amount of work. All you have to do is know that work is equal to force multiplied by distance. Using the torque and rpm of the engine in your motorhome, you can calculate the propulsion force, and then solve for "work". You don't need the horsepower formula for this.
This shows me that just the torque produced by an engine is a power that can do a lot of work.
It's only when you need to do calculations with require horsepower as the standard, that you need to use the horsepower formula.
Personally, whenever I go to select a diesel engine for a motorhome, or earth-moving equipment, I don't even bother asking for the horsepower graph. All I want to see is the torque curve.

Well written ! You dusted some cobwebs off my grey matter. lol

Torque is a force (a twisting force that tends to cause rotation). I too, look mostly at the torque rating of a power plant when buying an RV or any vehicle that will be used for towing. 😉

[Cloud_Dancer]

Well yeah, but all I was saying that there's another way (using formula for work W=FxD)

But, let's face it, everybody uses the common way,.....TEST DRIVE. And, if you're not satisfied with the performance, just buy one with a bigger diesel (with more torque, and with improved torque-to-weight ratio). Really and truly, that's my advice.

[427435]

Tinyandthegang wrote:
Becauce horse power is a calculation of work being done, horse power determines how fast you can climb a hill and torque determines what gear you will need.

Accurate and good way of putting it.

[Tinyandthegang]

Becauce horse power is a calculation of work being done, horse power determines how fast you can climb a hill and torque determines what gear you will need.

[fourmat]

Ford 6.8 gas on the new models puts out 457 ft lbs at 3,250 rpm the deisel torque will be at a lower rpm