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Winegard Video Switch box connections and rear TV

Oldgrape
Explorer
Explorer
Howdy all. Purchased a 2005 Monaco Monarch SE about two months ago. Originally had two old analog TVs with a DTV converter. Both TVs picked up channels in my driveway. I replaced both with digital flat panel TVS. removed the DTV converter and connected the antenna coax directly to the Winegard video selector/amplifier. There is a Winegard batwing antenna on the roof. First I have to select the Aux button instead of the antenna button on the video selector box to get a signal in the Front or Rear TV. On the rear TV it either gets no signal or says it is too weak. I have read at "http://rvtvstereo.com/rv-tv-antenna-amplifier" that batwings older than 2009/10 are not actually designed to work well with HDTV signals. So my questions are: Does it sound like my selector/amplifier box could be bad? Do I need an additional signal booster/amplifier somewhere to boost the rear TV signal? And is the linked article true and I should just replace my current Batwing with a newer version?
Galen & Amy
2006 Winnebago TOUR 40KD
Joined 06/2014
USN Retired
22 REPLIES 22

BobD8487
Explorer
Explorer
btw - you don't need any expensive RF signal generators or meters to prove the loss through these boxes. Simply run a channel scan with your antenna or cable service connected through the box, then direct connect to one of your TVs and run another scan (unless you have a new antenna which does not require the 12vdc, or you have a wall plate that will apply the 12vdc power, you may not be able to test with the antenna directly connected to the TV). Now compare the number and signal quality of the channels found.

BobD8487
Explorer
Explorer
To my knowledge, RV manufacturers are not yet wiring for HDMI. Quest has promised a new product which will feature HDMI inputs, but will probably still transmit the signal to the TVs via Co-Ax. This is not a bad thing, mind you, as co-ax cable is more than capable of carrying HD quality video. Again, it is the switch box itself that is the cause of signal loss, not the cables. There are only two manufacturers making a switch for RV installations, and both are antiquated designs which cause excessive signal loss. It will be up to the RV manufacturers *and* consumers to...encourage...them to stop living off the profits of their old product and put some money into updating their product designs to eliminate the signal loss.

I should also add the reason the signals must be carried to the TVs via co-ax is the Antenna, as well as Cable/Sat Set Top Boxes that use co-ax not HDMI to connect. In both cases the TV's tuner must be used to select the channel you will watch (Antenna) or tune to for the STB (Chnl 3 or 4 usually). Same is true for the DVD. The switch box is a great idea for an RV as it simplifies the cabling from one set of input devices to multiple TV locations. Its the design of these switch boxes that must be improved. Not many campers use a STB for cable unless they are permanent residents, and rely on the campground's service so again, the TV tuner must be used to select the channel they watch.

rkentzel
Explorer
Explorer
Just went thru this yesterday and today what a mess I had previous owner had it all jacked up and nothing labeled. Original problem was at the connection at the roof coax broken found that checking for 12 volts. Pulled the plate on the roof replaced a connector there and ran new coax thru antenna mast and connectors now I had 12 volts. Used a length of wire and a meter and rang all the cables out so I new which went where and hooked them up to the switch box now back in business signal front and rear.
1997 Pursuit class A

heyduke50
Explorer
Explorer
so what would one use to replace their antiquated system anyhow? I already have an HDTV and could use HDMI inputs. What are they putting into 2015 1nd 2016 RV now?

BobD8487
Explorer
Explorer
In response to heyduke50, I tested a beta version of the QS53E. It was not very good. Had the same, if not worse, signal loss on all inputs which made no sense as they could have easily have included signal amplification to overcome any loss imposed by the switch. Have not seen a Generally Available E-model production release.

In response to wa8yxm, not sure which "original post" you are referring to - mine or the one that appeared a few years ago. Connecting the new Auto Amplified antenna systems such as the Winegard Rayzar to the Aux input instead of the Ant In is actually a recommended work-around by Winegard support to avoid putting 12vDC on the new antenna system's control panel. According to the manufacturers, there is no difference at all between any of the inputs except for the DVD and the fact that the Ant has the 12vDC power necessary to power the old style Sensar antenna's built-in signal amp. I proved this to be true applying the same video signal input to the Ant, Aux and Satellite inputs - they all behaved the same. If the user has a Sensar or other antenna system which requires 12vDC, then the only input they should be using is the Ant In. However, all inputs incur the excessive insertion signal loss imposed by the QS53 switch.

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Re Reading the original post I think I see the problem

The Rooftop antenna is hooked to AUX not to ANT. only the ANT jack sends power to the roof for the booster that is built into the antenna.

Either that or the cableing is messed up in some other way.

But it sure sounds like a cable issue.

One thing that may cause issues is the cheap crimp on connectors nearly every cable manufacturer uses,, I mean a good hard sneeze and they pull right off the end of the cable.

I use Compression fittings Not easy to pull those off.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

heyduke50
Explorer
Explorer
I see they have a Quest QS5E Video Control Center out now - I wonder how the "E" version is different front the QS5D version?

BobD8487
Explorer
Explorer
My Newmar Ventana came equipped with the Quest QS53D. There are very few products that will work in the same RV application (i.e., 12vDC and Co-Ax output cables). You may also run into the Magnadyne VCS-10, which is identical in form and function, but also performs as badly as the Quest product. Magnadyne, however, does not sell direct to consumer, only to RV manufacturers so your RV may come equipped with one. In all fairness, Quest Technology is working on a new Electronic switch to replace the QS53D. Let's hope they improve on the design. What follows is a Product Review I have been posting on any online retail store that sells or has sold the QS53D.

The QS53D was intended to provide a centralized switching solution and simplify the cabling between various video input devices and the TVs located within an RV. This product will also apply 12vDC to the Antenna Input of the QS53D so the wall plate associated with most RV antenna systems would not be necessary (the wall plate’s on/off switch performs two functions: when On, 12vDC would be applied to the Antenna’s signal amplifier and block the signal from the RV’s Cable connection; when Off, the Cable signal would be sent to the TVs instead of the Antenna signal).

The QS53D is a nice product, but unfortunately has an outdated design. Most HD Digital switches for the home have Composite, Component or HDMI video connections. The QS53D must use co-axial cable so that the TV’s tuners can be used for channel selection for over-the-air and cable TV signals. While co-ax is capable of carrying HD quality video, some RV manufacturers use poor quality cable and connectors, with too many RF Splitters that result in enough signal loss to negatively affect TV signals, especially Digital TV. A Video Control Center is a great way to reduce the amount of cables, connectors and splitters, but there are two inherent problems with the QS53D that must be addressed by the manufacturer in the next generation of this product:

1. The 12vDC applied to the antenna input may damage newer Automatic Amplified Antenna systems such as the Winegard Rayzar, but there is no way to disable it completely on the QS53D. An easy, inexpensive (under $5) work-around solution is to install a Voltage Blocking Coupler (VBC) between the antenna’s control panel and the ANT IN connector on the QS53D.

2. The mechanical switches used by the QS53D cause excessive signal loss which severely impacts antenna signals and weak campground cable signals. You must install an RF signal Drop Amplifier (15db or more forward gain, costs $30-$50) between your Cable/Ant inputs and the switch which, if installed correctly, will boost both your cable and antenna signals enough to compensate for the loss through the QS53D.

I was ready to return my new Rayzar antenna as defective. Connected through the QS53D, my TV Channel Searches found only 3 channels in one particular location which were only marginally watchable. Connected directly to my TVs 21+ channels were found. That is significant insertion loss with the QS53D in the mix. At multiple campgrounds connected to their cable system, we had horrible TV reception, also because of the QS53D.

Eliminating the Video Control Center completely is not an option in many RVs including our motor home because of the other equipment that is connected to it. However, the QS53D is one of the only available products that will work in an RV with 12vDC and co-ax cable. Quest Technology International should release an improved product that will provide a means to disable the 12vDC power to prevent accidental damage to new antenna systems, and utilize electronic switches with signal amplification to eliminate the insertion loss. The DVD function works great and strong video signals from a VCR or Satellite set top box will probably overcome the signal loss. But without the above two work-around solutions for Antenna and Cable, I cannot recommend the QS53D. Also note that I connected the Rayzar antenna to the Satellite and Aux inputs and noted the exact same degradation in signal, so unless you have a strong input signal regardless of which input you use, it will simply not overcome the loss induced by the switch box.

Oldgrape
Explorer
Explorer
Howdy all. So here is the update. The video switch box is defective. I get no antenna signal to any ports when connected to the "antenna in" jack. It does work when I connect the antenna in to the "Aux in" jack. Still getting too low of a signal for the rear TV to actually play. I know this because that is what the TV actually displays. I did take it up and connect it to the cable going to the front TV and it worked. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the signal being split twice before it runs through 50 or 60 ft. of cable to the rear TV. So to address all of those discrepancies, I ordered the following: Wingman, the Winegard SENSARPRO Signal detector/amp, and a new selector box (not Winegard). There is a replacement selector box (Quest QS53D Video Control Center). I still need to get a tool to check the cables.
Galen & Amy
2006 Winnebago TOUR 40KD
Joined 06/2014
USN Retired

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Question.... You said you DO get a picture when you select AUX.. What is hooked to the AUX input on the back of the box?????

That might make a difference.

Oh, and to Old Biscuit.. . Thanks,, I needed that (Link to the PDF version of the manual for the box)
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

JimM68
Explorer
Explorer
I started typing an answer, then my pc fritzed out.trying again.

Our 08 monaco has a biege switchplate on theleft wall of the drivers side cabinet above the windshield, where the a/v equipment is.

It has a 12v lighter socket (we plug our wilson cel amp in there) a threaded coax connection (nothing connected to it) and behind that coax, out of sight, a tiny pushbutton that glows green when you push it.

That pushbutton is the power for the batwing. (Ibelieve it is fed to the batwing thru the winegaurd box, not sure, we only use cable and satelite.)
We do feed both thru the wineguard switch to the bedroom tv without a problem.
Jim M.
2008 Monaco Knight 40skq, moho #2
The "68"
My very own new forumfirstgens.com

My new blog

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
The wingman is a snap on addition that improves UHF reception for older antennas since most DTV stations are in the UHF frequencies.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
Another test is to run a coax from the rear TV coax (at the TV) using a barrel connector to the front TV. Then you know if it's the coax or TV. If it's the coax try the outside TV coax. Also remove the splitter for the rear TV.

Batwing checking is secondary to the non working rear TV as you have a good signal to the front TV.

Disconnect the 12V power to the box with a distant station to determine if the batwing is working as expected. If a wingman is not installed add it first checking that you have the additional clearance on the roof.

BTW You'll want a spare coax for the cable connection if you don't have one. Barrel connectors are available at various stores.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

rvten
Explorer
Explorer
Check TV setting. Make sure they are set up for both digital and analog or at least digital.
My Visios are that way.
Tom & Bonnie
Crossville, TN.
Aspect 29H 2008 Type C
Ford Flex SEL 2010
There is NO B+