Winterization

[jjson775]

I "winterized" our Pleasure Way Pursuit yesterday. I drained the water tank down to about 8 gal. and poured 3 gal. of RV anti freeze into the tank. Then I ran all the sink faucets both hot and cold, and the shower, also running both hot and cold water until a steady stream of pink water showed. I flushed the toilet a number of times to put the dilute solution into the black water tank. I did not drain the hot water heater but since I ran the hot water faucets, there is at least some anti freeze in it. I figure I ran about 8 gal. of the diluted anti freeze thru the outlets.

Of course this would not work in Calgary or Minneapolis but we live near Houston, TX and 25º F would be a hard freeze for us. Did I do any good or did I waste my time and money? I would especially like to hear opinions from other RV owners that live on the Gulf coast where the climate is similar to ours. What to you do? I will appreciate any feedback.

[DaCrema]

Next time just blow dry the line. Use a oil-less compressor so as not to contaminate the water lines. That is the procedure that Lazy Daze recommends in their owners manual. I do not have the book in front of me but as I recall it is roughly something like this.
... open all fresh water faucets
... dump fresh water tank,
... dump hot water tank, put the plug back in the hot water tank (I sometimes forget to do this and it slows me down in later steps)
... On the out side of the RV press the purge valve at the city water inlet. You want to do this step when there is no pressure in the water lines.
... disconnect water pipe at downstream side of pump
... close all water faucets
... remove the aerator from the faucets (not one of LD's steps but it will prevent clogging when you refill with water).
... connect air hose to the water system (they sell a hose that will screw into the water line at the pump connection, but I am sure it is available else where)
... run the air tank out line at 50#. This is about 10-15# less than the water system rated for. You might want to check what your system is rated at.
... slowly open the highest faucet (kitchen sink in my RV)run until air comes out. Do the same with hot water. Make your way to each water source and do the same. It takes a couple trips around the RV until all the gurgles are gone. The trick is to only open the faucet a little so the water is pushed as a body.
... empty the pump and strainer of fresh water. (I just turn on the pump and let the pint or less of water run onto a towel).

At this point the OP's water lines should be good for the 25 deg weather. I run pink stuff through the strainer and pump while the line is off the water pump (just look for pink stuff on the towel.
... reattach water line to pump.
... empty black and grey tanks
... pour antifreeze in each sink, shower, and toilet.
I tend to use a gal for the complete process because I want a fair amount of antifreeze in the bottom of each tank. I keep a gal in the RV to flush the ptraps and put in the tanks in case I want to camp in the winter.
It took me almost as long to type the procedure just now as it did to blow the lines (discounting dumping all tanks).
I do not think I would ever put antifreeze in the fresh water tank. You might want to consult a pro on how to make sure there is none left in the system.

[JaxDad]

Dakzuki wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

jamesa403 wrote:
Why not just blow out the water lines with an air compressor. It doesn't take much of a size compressor.

No water to freeze anywhere.

I hate to contradict my neighbour down the 401, but that's pretty dangerous advice.

Even a really small compressor can blow most of the water out of the lines, but it takes a pretty good-sized compressor (with large reservoir) to blow all the water out and be safe from freeze damage.

Even a relatively small amount of water droplets left behind can settle down into low spots and cause burst lines or fittings.

You need to have a compressor / reservoir big enough to be able to maintain ~50+ psi indefinitely to safely winterize an RV with just air.

The only thing that causes pipes to burst is water that has nowhere to expand to. If you have virtually all the water out what is left can expand into the places where there is just air. Modern RV plumbing is pretty robust too. The industry is promoting the sale of their products and services. Much of RV winterizing can be filed along with 3000 mile oil changes which are heavily promoted by those that sell and change oil.

Uh-huh, right. So then P-traps don't need any antifreeze poured into them?

After all they're big diameter and open at both ends with just a little bit of water in there right?

[Dakzuki]

JaxDad wrote:

jamesa403 wrote:
Why not just blow out the water lines with an air compressor. It doesn't take much of a size compressor.

No water to freeze anywhere.

I hate to contradict my neighbour down the 401, but that's pretty dangerous advice.

Even a really small compressor can blow most of the water out of the lines, but it takes a pretty good-sized compressor (with large reservoir) to blow all the water out and be safe from freeze damage.

Even a relatively small amount of water droplets left behind can settle down into low spots and cause burst lines or fittings.

You need to have a compressor / reservoir big enough to be able to maintain ~50+ psi indefinitely to safely winterize an RV with just air.

The only thing that causes pipes to burst is water that has nowhere to expand to. If you have virtually all the water out what is left can expand into the places where there is just air. Modern RV plumbing is pretty robust too. The industry is promoting the sale of their products and services. Much of RV winterizing can be filed along with 3000 mile oil changes which are heavily promoted by those that sell and change oil.

[jamesa403]

I agree that it has to be a relatively decent compressor, but a five gallon compressor, approximately $150 - $200 does the job nicely. Also, you must let it blow, tap by tap for about 5 minutes each, and this will clear the "droplets" out of any line. This isn't a big deal to do, just use common sense, and make sure that all of the openings have been blown out.

[JaxDad]

jamesa403 wrote:
Why not just blow out the water lines with an air compressor. It doesn't take much of a size compressor.

No water to freeze anywhere.

I hate to contradict my neighbour down the 401, but that's pretty dangerous advice.

Even a really small compressor can blow most of the water out of the lines, but it takes a pretty good-sized compressor (with large reservoir) to blow all the water out and be safe from freeze damage.

Even a relatively small amount of water droplets left behind can settle down into low spots and cause burst lines or fittings.

You need to have a compressor / reservoir big enough to be able to maintain ~50+ psi indefinitely to safely winterize an RV with just air.

[RVWithTito]

jamesa403 wrote:
Why not just blow out the water lines with an air compressor. It doesn't take much of a size compressor. First drain all the tanks like the water tank and the hot water heater, turn the tap to isolate the water tank and the water heater, then connect the compressor up to the city water inlet. blow the lines for about 15 minutes by opening all the taps, flushing the toilet, etc. Don't forget the taps that might be in the dumping area. Then go through and open all the taps one by one to make sure that all the water is out. Pour some Pink Stuff down the toilet and the drains, and you're done. No water to freeze anywhere. If you have an ice maker, don't forget that.

Agreed! My friends the RVGeeks put together a good how to video on this subject recently. Watch the video. You can even enter to win a nice Viair compressor.

[dennislanier]

jjson775 wrote:
I noticed that all these responses are from cold climates where the issue is more serious. I found this chart:
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0073/0901b80380073445.pdf?filepath=heattrans/pdfs/noreg/180-01530.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
It says a 12% solution of antifreeze protects against bursting down to 20º F. Even a 5% solution lowers the freezing point to 29º. I'm satisfied with what I did.

According to the chart, looks like you are protected from freezing to around 10 degrees, so you should be good to go if your numbers are correct. Did not know such a chart existed, thanks for sharing. I am assuming most RV anti-freezes are similar in makeup to the Dow formula.

[2oldman]

jjson775 wrote:
It says a 12% solution of antifreeze protects against bursting down to 20º F. Even a 5% solution lowers the freezing point to 29º. I'm satisfied with what I did.

Did you use Dowfrost?

[Dakota98]

jjson775 wrote:
Did I do any good or did I waste my time and money?

Time will tell, & truly, I hope you are right.

Forgive me, but I believe you have gotten very good advice from the responses given. Yes, most coming from colder climates, but good advice all the same. I studied the chart and it appears to have contradicted itself. If you scroll down further, there is a "main" chart that states at 15% by volume as an absolute minimum solution recommended at the temperature of 25 degrees and goes on to say to build in a safety factor of 5 degrees, making a 20% solution as best. Just saying

[jjson775]

I noticed that all these responses are from cold climates where the issue is more serious. I found this chart:
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0073/0901b80380073445.pdf?filepath=heattrans/pdfs/noreg/180-01530.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
It says a 12% solution of antifreeze protects against bursting down to 20º F. Even a 5% solution lowers the freezing point to 29º. I'm satisfied with what I did.

[jamesa403]

Why not just blow out the water lines with an air compressor. It doesn't take much of a size compressor. First drain all the tanks like the water tank and the hot water heater, turn the tap to isolate the water tank and the water heater, then connect the compressor up to the city water inlet. blow the lines for about 15 minutes by opening all the taps, flushing the toilet, etc. Don't forget the taps that might be in the dumping area. Then go through and open all the taps one by one to make sure that all the water is out. Pour some Pink Stuff down the toilet and the drains, and you're done. No water to freeze anywhere. If you have an ice maker, don't forget that.

[Dakota98]

With the majority of the country experiencing abnormal cold temps, If it were me, I'd start over asap & re-do the winterizing correctly. IMHO

[edsland]

Water heaters have bypass valves so antifreeze doesn't go in them other wise you'll need 6 gallons just for the water heater. It's a lot easier to bypass and drain the tank.

[dennislanier]

Just wondering why you left that much water in the fresh water tank, and why you did not drain the water heater. If you had drained the water heater and used the bypass that would have made the anti-freeze "stronger" for the rest of the system and taken the worry out of freezing up the water heater. Don't know if the diluted anti-freeze will be a problem, but if you are going to the expense of using the pink stuff you may as well use it full strength in my opinion.