Wiring the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay diesel-2

[fcooper]

My coach does not charge the chassis batteries when on shore power, it just charges the house batteries.

I'm considering replacing the currently installed Intelletic Relay Delay (charges house batteries when alternator output is sensed) with the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay diesel 2 (BIRD).

The service manual for the BIRD states

When the generator is operating, a 12 volt signal is applied to the generator input. This inhibits the isolator from operating. This is to prevent the generator/converter combination from supplying power to the chassis
functions which might over-load the converter or the generator circuit breaker.

.

The wiring diagram simply shows a connection between the terminal on the BIRD and the generator, but provides no information on where to connect this wire to the generator. If you want to see the wiring diagram I've found, it's at link to service manual

I have searched for installation instructions, but the best I can find is the service manual in the link above.

If any of you have installed one of these Bi-Directional Isolator Relays, can you help me understand how the wiring is connected between the Bidirectional Isolator Relay and the generator. I have a 7.5KW diesel generator.

Thanks

Fred

[OnaQuest]

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

[OnaQuest]

The BIRD is definitely a device made by Intellitec. The model 839 has the generator lock out feature.

It doesn't have to be activated if the user chooses not to. It's purpose is to inhibit the alternator charge voltage from activating the BIRD when the generator is also running.

Think about it. If they are both running, the BIRD is not needed anyway, and the possibility of the converter charge voltage confusing (or worse) the engines alternator and charge gauge is eliminated.

People will ask why the lockout is not needed, or used, when on shore power (converter charging) and the alternator is also charging. The conditions would be the same, but it's just that this probably wouldn't happen for an extended period of time like it might be when driving and running the generator for air conditioning.

Monaco was/is not a big user of the BIRD. They seem to prefer a diode charge path for some of their coaches.

[JimM68]

Fred, I sent you some stuff via email.

Monaco did in fact include (actually several over the years) Bidirectional charge systems in their mid price pushers.

While the original IRD was an Intelletec device (one one-way only) subsequent BIRD systems were not made by intelletec.

Note also, a Genny connection is not used and not needed. The unit "see's" the voltage in the house side and the chassis side, and determines from that alone where the charge is coming from and what state the batteries are in.

It absolutely will let the charge source bring it's "home batteries" up to float, and then cut in the other side.
In either direction, from any charge source.

Our works really well.

[Daytonaman]

I believe that on my Sig, all charging devices, eg, gen,inv, eng, all have diodes pointed at both batteries. This setup works well and has been around along time. No contacts or controllers to burn out. These charging devices have built in charge controllers already. This includes the solar panel.

[dougrainer]

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

[dougrainer]

At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

[the_armadillo]

There is a newer revision of the BIRD manual (rev B) which has revised voltage values and a more complete schematic. Doesn't help with the generator connection but does show the ignition and emergency start switch better.

BIRD Diesel 2-rev B

There has been some discussion about this generator connection on this site and iRV2. Mainly centered around the ability (or lack thereof) to charge chassis batteries with the generator in the event of an alternator failure while on the road. Haven't had to deal with that issue and have had good luck with our OEM installed BIRD Diesel 2.

[fcooper]

Thanks OnaQuest

That's the info I needed.

Fred

[OnaQuest]

The attachment point on the BIRD requires 12V. Most of them are wired to the line that feeds the generator hour meter.