Wrangler toad

[racer99]

We are thinking of buying a older 2002-2006 wrangler which would be auto trans and want to tow it 4 down,are brakes a must or can we tow it without brakes

[creeper]

mowermech wrote:

Then how does Utah write tickets to out-of-state Jeep drivers who have oversize tires that extend beyond the fender flares?

Not all tickets written are correct, that's just a fact. I guess then NY troopers could write me for not having an inspection, even though my state doesn't require them.

Often the vehicle traffic laws will will have a disclaimer such as, "registered in this state". Which some officers ignore, forget that the exemption for out of state residents are in a part of the law few read or are just going off their cheat sheet.

Vehicles equipment violations generally only apply to vehicles registered in that state. Which would be different then actual "moving violations".

Now as far as writing out of state jeep drivers, they are probably only dong that because the Jeep drivers are causing a nuisance. That's a petty thing to write or singled out. Nor have I seen the summons to see if it's an equipment violation or an unsafe operation violation. .

[smacdiesel]

Here's my toad, not a wrangler but it sure serves me well. Have a radio frequency brake from blue ox.

[MPond]

FIRE UP wrote:


...
Now, here's the LEGAL deal. In all but VERY FEW states, it is required to have auxiliary brake systems in your toad. You can go on line and simply do a search for legal towing your toad behind your RV with or without brakes and, you'll find charts that tell you which states demand it and which don't.
...

Scott - you're right on every part but the legality of it. Aux brakes are a good idea, and many rigs need them in order to meet certain braking performance criteria.

But in legal terms, most of those charts online are wrong, for a variety of reasons.

1. First and foremost, they mostly reference trailer laws, and many states make a distinction between a trailer and a vehicle being towed.
2. Some of the quoted "trailer" laws are even quoted incorrectly.
3. Consider the source - many of those charts are published by sites that are trying to sell these products and provide justification for those purchases.

I am NOT making a case for not using these types of auxiliary brakes. But I prefer to be very clear about what is and is not legal.

Personally, I no longer have a dog in this fight... I flat-towed my Jeep for many years, but a couple years ago I bought a flatbed trailer for the Jeep to ride on, with brakes on both axles.

[Sprig]

racer99 wrote:
We are thinking of buying a older 2002-2006 wrangler which would be auto trans and want to tow it 4 down,are brakes a must or can we tow it without brakes

Well, I have a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon as my Toad; and I don't have an aux brake installed. I have never felt that I had the need for one in 15K miles of driving.

Now, having said that, it is my understanding that it is certainly better to have one, and I do have one, I just do not have it installed yet.

When I drive the RV, with the Toad behind, I drive like I ride my motorcycle; with the attitude that EVERYONE is out to crash into me. With this mindset, I leave all sorts of extra room in every direction around me.

I certainly recommend having the aux braking as, "Going is optional, but stopping is mandatory."

But reality is that if I need to use aux braking, EVERYTHING loose in the RV is going to be flying forward; something I try to avoid as much as possible. I like the things in cabinets to be reasonably close to where they were when I put them in there.

[mc_cc]

Yes you can tow it without auxillary braking just fine. My parents towed a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 40'DP and I tow a wrangler. I can barely tell that it is back there. I do not know the issues of legality and probably most beat cops don't know either.

[BobGed]

Tom/Barb wrote:
As far as equipment goes, When you are legal in your home state, you are legal in all states. It's in the federal interstate commerce laws.

Laws concerning operation of the vehicle are state by state. as posted.

I think this is a violation of the Tenth Amendment. :B
I agree with the last two posters. Individual states have the right to establish and enforce their own equipment requirements.

[conceptumator]

Got to agree with mowermech - try explaining the interstate commerce laws to a state trooper on the side of the road and you're hosed. Virginia can't make you get an inspection sticker to drive through the state, but they sure as heck can nail you for having a radar detector in use. Besides which, I don't believe there are that many states that don't require supplemental braking anyway. It's just not that hard to do. We use the Invisibrake in our Wrangler - permanently installed, never any equipment to mess with, doesn't run down the battery, completely out of sight and works great. I might not worry about my own safety sometimes, but I'd hate to think I hurt someone else by trying to save a few bucks and a little hassle.

[mowermech]

Tom/Barb wrote:
As far as equipment goes, When you are legal in your home state, you are legal in all states. It's in the federal interstate commerce laws.

Laws concerning operation of the vehicle are state by state. as posted.

Then how does Utah write tickets to out-of-state Jeep drivers who have oversize tires that extend beyond the fender flares?
While Reciprocity Agreements are in place between most states (not all states, I have read, are signatories to such agreements), such agreements usually only cover registration, insurance, and driver licensing requirements.
Please quote Chapter and Verse of the Federal Interstate Commerce laws/regulations/rules to which you are referring.

[Tom_Barb]

As far as equipment goes, When you are legal in your home state, you are legal in all states. It's in the federal interstate commerce laws.

Laws concerning operation of the vehicle are state by state. as posted.

[mowermech]

"Now, here's the LEGAL deal. In all but VERY FEW states, it is required to have auxiliary brake systems in your toad. You can go on line and simply do a search for legal towing your toad behind your RV with or without brakes and, you'll find charts that tell you which states demand it and which don't."

SORRY,that just isn't true! While many states (and the FMVSS) have a braking performance law, and the state laws closely mirror the FMVSS, most states do not have any law that specifically addresses braking on a towed motor vehicle. In fact, I know of only one, NC, that does (see GS20-124). The lists of laws found on the internet almost always specify TRAILER brake laws. Nearly all states have a list of legal definitions, and the definition of a trailer usually does not include a towed motor vehicle. For an example, see Montana Code Annotated (MCA) 61-1-101 (82) (a). For an example of a braking performance law, see MCA 61-9-312.
So, is a braking system on a towed vehicle a GOOD IDEA? YES!!
Is a braking system required by law in "most" states? If you can stop the rig within 40 or 45 feet (depending on the state) from 20 MPH on a clean, dry, level, hard surface, probably not.
Are the lists of towing laws published by braking unit manufacturers factual?
Not even close!

[Skylark]

X 2 on the m & g air brake connection. I have used the m& g system for nine years, no problems whatsoever. Simple hookup, just running an air line connection between coach and toad. In an emergency stop, seen skid marks from the wrangler. I have the m & g breakaway kit also.
After nine years use, I am glad I did use the m & g, and if I ever get another coach or towed, it will have the m & g system on them again.

[FIRE_UP]

racer99 wrote:
We are thinking of buying a older 2002-2006 wrangler which would be auto trans and want to tow it 4 down,are brakes a must or can we tow it without brakes

racer99.

First off, about 99.999% of most Jeeps, hover real close to 4K in weight or over. It all depends on just what's outfitted into/onto the Jeep itself. You put lifts, larger tires and wheels, heavy duty bumpers, nerf bars, roll bars, specialty rear/spare tire carriers, a HARD TOP, and more, you creep up to 4,500-4,700 REAL FAST!

So, even towing it with a large type Diesel Pusher, 4,500 lbs. almost doubles it weight as you try and STOP IT, while towing it at higher speeds. So, SHOULD you have a braking system in it, for common sense sake, YEP, you sure should.

What kind, well, that's up to you. There's a ton of them out there. There are some that somewhat easy to setup and some, are a PITA. Most of them have some sort of arm that pushes on the brake pedal. Some, like Ready Brake, "Pull" on the brake arm with a cable. The one I recently went to is the M & G Braking system and, it has NOTHING inside the toad, what so ever. It's a unit that is installed between the master cylinder and the power brake booster. I really like it. All there is between the coach and the toad, is an air hose.

Now, here's the LEGAL deal. In all but VERY FEW states, it is required to have auxiliary brake systems in your toad. You can go on line and simply do a search for legal towing your toad behind your RV with or without brakes and, you'll find charts that tell you which states demand it and which don't.

My thoughts are, what are you going to do, DRIVE AROUND THE STATES THAT DON'T REQUIRE IT? For a measly few hundred bucks, you're good for ALL FIFTY STATES!! And, this is also one of those things that falls in the "liability" bag. You could be happily cruising in your RV, towing your little Jeep and, all of a sudden, you get banged from the side.

It's not your fault at all, not even close. But, a shyster lawyer will find out you DON'T HAVE TOAD BRAKES and, will turn things around in court of law. You don't think so? It's happened way more than once. So, Your choice. Good luck with your new Jeep.
Scott

[mc_cc]

I have a 2012 Wrangler, towed it about 4000 miles last winter to Colorado, through some steep mountain passes, etc. I have an F53 30ft motorhome. I started out with the supplemental braking and after about 500 miles decided it was more of a hassle than it was worth. Have not used the supplemental braking system since. As long as you are in the tow/haul mode and your rig is relatively lite like mine, your overall braking will take a little longer, but Diesel pushers easily take longer to stop without the tow vehicle than a relatively lite gasser with the additional 3800lbs.

[Gau_8]

Let me share a story with you.
When I bought my 39 ft DP, i also bought a 2006 Wrangler for a toad. I installed a braking system for it, to include breakaway.

One day it paid for itself. I was distracted by my wife in the back and did not immediately notice that the traffic in front of me was stopped.

I took both feet and stomped on the brake pedal with all my strength. the anti skid could be felt cycling. I could see that the toad system was working by the red light that indicates it is on. I stopped with about 10 ft to spare.

Had I not had the additional braking, I have no doubt that I would have hit the stopped traffic.

Do you need brakes? How lucky do you feel?