Why must wifi be so bad

[kohai]

Ok, just back from 2 weeks on the road -- our first big trip. I was surprised at how poor the wifi was at every place we stayed.

Things I ran into:

- one park didn't even try to offer it where the sites were. They just said you had to come down near the office.

- one place even had a sign that said their wifi wasn't good and that they couldn't get anything better. Part of the truth though was that their equipment wasn't configured right to even allow me to connect.

- several places offered it but you couldn't actually get web pages to load

- I've heard people bash tenango (or whatever it is called). It was dog slow but at least I could get pages to load (about 45 second page load times)

- I can tether from my phone but some of the places I was in didn't have the best signal strength. Wifi systems have the advantage of being a land-line based setup.

I've done network administration in my day and have some familiarity with how hotels run their networks. I like how some hotels do it. You get a sliver of bandwidth for free (say, 256k) but you can upgrade and get enough bandwidth to stream video for $x dollars a day. Their systems throttle anybody consuming more than their share -- people streaming video can't steal all of the bandwidth because the system won't let them.

The technology exists to solve the bandwidth hog problem. Probably the biggest hurdle is getting a decent connection from a telecom provider. Even with a slower connection, the systems could be managed better.

I would pay extra for working internet at a park. Being a techie and still needing to do work when I'm on the road, it really is a downer (and a bit maddening) when I can't do what I need for 30 minutes before I go off to enjoy my vacation.

I assume working wifi will be more of a demand with the younger generation -- or lack of working wifi may deter them from the RV world.

[MrWizard]

this has deteriorated enough

[paulcardoza]

And is that Chevy wifi active even when the truck is off?

strollin wrote:

PapaNIes60 wrote:
We either use our cell phones as hot spots or if the signal is not too good or we can't get at least a good 3G signal we always have our Wi-Fi from our Tow Vehicle (2015 Silverado). It has always proven reliable. Since we don't live stream video we don't go over the 3GB per month that is complimentary for five years. I prefer to avoid public Wi-Fi hotspots. This works for us.

I'd like to hear more about the wifi built-in to your Chevy. How much do you pay per month and how much data are you allowed? Can you access the wifi hotspot when in your RV? Do you know which cellular carrier it uses?

[strollin]

PapaNIes60 wrote:
We either use our cell phones as hot spots or if the signal is not too good or we can't get at least a good 3G signal we always have our Wi-Fi from our Tow Vehicle (2015 Silverado). It has always proven reliable. Since we don't live stream video we don't go over the 3GB per month that is complimentary for five years. I prefer to avoid public Wi-Fi hotspots. This works for us.

I'd like to hear more about the wifi built-in to your Chevy. How much do you pay per month and how much data are you allowed? Can you access the wifi hotspot when in your RV? Do you know which cellular carrier it uses?

[PapaNIes60]

We either use our cell phones as hot spots or if the signal is not too good or we can't get at least a good 3G signal we always have our Wi-Fi from our Tow Vehicle (2015 Silverado). It has always proven reliable. Since we don't live stream video we don't go over the 3GB per month that is complimentary for five years. I prefer to avoid public Wi-Fi hotspots. This works for us.

[dbates]

Another problem for campgrounds is the "expert" that installs the systems. After 40 years in banking working with commercial accounts I've come to the conclusion that if any electronics person brags about being an "expert" tell him to go to that warm place and kick him out.

We were at a campground a few years ago and they had paid several thousand dollars to an "expert" to setting up their WIFI system but after several months it still didn’t work. They gave up on him, and found a couple of kids that said they could fix it but wouldn’t take any pay until it worked right and in just a few days it was working A-OK.

Dave

[westernrvparkow]

mockturtle wrote:

Dog Folks wrote:

mockturtle wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
While I do have my own mobile Wifi, there are still quite a few places that do not have a Verizon signal (although Verizon no doubt has the best coverage). When a campground advertises Wifi in such a place, I do expect it to work--preferably well--but even slowly is better than nothing. I ran into a few parks in Canada and Alaska that limit data usage to 250MB per 24 hours and I'd like to be notified of this before I pay for a site. Yes, I would pay extra for good Wifi. And, no, I don't do video streaming or anything like that. I don't believe RV Parks should advertise Wifi unless it's actually functional.

So you would rather not have that 250MB of data to use when you are in an area where the phone doesn't even work? How is having no wifi at all better than having some internet, even if it doesn't work as well as you wish it did?

That's easy! Often, the only reason I choose to stay in an RV Park (as opposed to a campground) is to use Wifi, especially in places where my Verizon Jetpack won't work. So I want to know up front if it's that limited, as I would rather stay in a NF campground with no services at all than to pay $40 for a site where the Wifi doesn't work or has draconian limitations.

With respect: Could not your concerns be easily answered with a phone call to the park? Much easier than getting there and all stressed out.

I don't think you got it. If I had a phone signal, I could use my own Wif device and wouldn't need the park's.

Besides, can you picture this conversation?
Caller: Does your Wifi work well?
RV Park staff: Oh, no, it's very slow and we limit you to 250MB.

When I have asked this question, I usually get, 'I haven't heard any complaints', which tells me nothing.

I get it exactly. You are complaining about slow wifi at a park where cellular service doesn't even exist. Most people would realize that must be a pretty rural area, where huge broadband pipelines probably don't exist. So, any service would be better than none. Kind of like if I am hungry and really want a steak, but the only restaurant open within miles is a Taco Bell, my choice is not to whine about how I really want a steak, the option is to eat a Taco or go hungry. If I was hungry enough, I am eating a Taco. You apparently would be upset that Taco Bell had a sign and was open.
And you know what else? Call my parks and tell me that fast, dependable wifi was a must have, I'll tell you to find another place to stay because I can't guarantee that level of service. I too would say we get very few complaints, but the fact is I am an RV park with wifi service, not an Internet Service Provider with RV parking.

[FlatBroke]

Back to wifi. I found my 2 year oldiPad is not as up to task as my 5 year old lap top. If it's spotty on the iPad the laptop works ok. Apple doesn't seem to have the antenna deal figured out.

[bwanshoom]

Vulcan Rider wrote:

bwanshoom wrote:

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but expressing it on a thread that's the opposite of your opinion adds nothing to the conversation.

Yes it does. I'm really sorry that you don't see that.

ALL honest opinions add value to the conversation; some more than others but none are totally worthless.

And sometimes a contrary opinion is EXACTLY what the OP needs to hear. (Not in this specific case probably.)

What is TOTALLY WORTHLESS it taking others to task for expressing an honest opinion that is offered in the spirit of actually being helpful. Just because YOU don't see it as helpful doesn't necessarily mean that it really isn't.

Okay, we'll just differ on this I guess.

[2oldman]

Vulcan Rider wrote:
ALL honest opinions add value to the conversation; some more than others but none are totally worthless.

Your original comment was constructive and polite. The 'other guy'...not so much, but, after a few years we just learn to live with it, and try to ignore it, because as you can already see, it's causing the thread to get hostile and derail.

And please don't tell me it isn't getting hostile. That insults my intelligence.

[Vulcan_Rider]

bwanshoom wrote:

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but expressing it on a thread that's the opposite of your opinion adds nothing to the conversation.

Yes it does. I'm really sorry that you don't see that.

ALL honest opinions add value to the conversation; some more than others but none are totally worthless.

And sometimes a contrary opinion is EXACTLY what the OP needs to hear. (Not in this specific case probably.)

What is TOTALLY WORTHLESS it taking others to task for expressing an honest opinion that is offered in the spirit of actually being helpful. Just because YOU don't see it as helpful doesn't necessarily mean that it really isn't.

[TragedyTrousers]

This is what I use. http://wavewifi.com/products/rogue-wave/
If you need even more range, Id use a yagi antenna.
You can hit wifi signals outside the park, Starbucks, Mcdonals, etc.

[mockturtle]

Dog Folks wrote:

mockturtle wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
While I do have my own mobile Wifi, there are still quite a few places that do not have a Verizon signal (although Verizon no doubt has the best coverage). When a campground advertises Wifi in such a place, I do expect it to work--preferably well--but even slowly is better than nothing. I ran into a few parks in Canada and Alaska that limit data usage to 250MB per 24 hours and I'd like to be notified of this before I pay for a site. Yes, I would pay extra for good Wifi. And, no, I don't do video streaming or anything like that. I don't believe RV Parks should advertise Wifi unless it's actually functional.

So you would rather not have that 250MB of data to use when you are in an area where the phone doesn't even work? How is having no wifi at all better than having some internet, even if it doesn't work as well as you wish it did?

That's easy! Often, the only reason I choose to stay in an RV Park (as opposed to a campground) is to use Wifi, especially in places where my Verizon Jetpack won't work. So I want to know up front if it's that limited, as I would rather stay in a NF campground with no services at all than to pay $40 for a site where the Wifi doesn't work or has draconian limitations.

With respect: Could not your concerns be easily answered with a phone call to the park? Much easier than getting there and all stressed out.

I don't think you got it. If I had a phone signal, I could use my own Wif device and wouldn't need the park's.

Besides, can you picture this conversation?
Caller: Does your Wifi work well?
RV Park staff: Oh, no, it's very slow and we limit you to 250MB.

When I have asked this question, I usually get, 'I haven't heard any complaints', which tells me nothing.

[paulcardoza]

Actually, I'm 25ft from an access point and the wifi signal itself is very strong. It's the throughput that sucks.

And throughput sucks REGARDLESS of the load in the CG. It's bad if there's 10 or 400 sites occupied. It's bad at noon or at 1am. It's bad if I stand underneath the access point. It's just bad...... They clearly spent a lot of money on upgrading the infrastructure. They had a 3rd party company do it (twice before they settled on the current equipment) and I don't believe Tengo did it. Can't be 100% sure tough.

After all was said and done, the money spent resulted in no better service, so in my view, it was money wasted.

[westernrvparkow]

paulcardoza wrote:
@westernrvparkowner --- Just to understand better, what type of internet feed do your parks have? Does your location have access to true broadband internet via cable or fiber? Or are you stuck with slower/more expensive options only?

We are seasonal at a CG that has me so totally confused. They recently did a major upgrade of the wifi infrastructure in the park. New access points everywhere give a very strong wifi signal, no matter where you are located.

They also are fed by Xfinity broadband. In fact, near the entrance and outside the CG, xfinity wifi is also readily available and provides decent speeds.

HOWEVER, after clearly spending a lot of money on the wifi infrastructure, they decided to take the broadband stream and route it through tengointernet. As with every other tengo served CG I have been to, performance is useless, regardless of time of day, or how crowded the CG is.

I'm not a wifi techie by any means, but some logic should apply here. I work in an office with several hundred employees. We have a single broadband internet feed (Fios) and it services everyone via wired and wifi all day long, with no speed deficiencies. Our monthly cost for the highest available Fios speed is $450.

I just don't get the tengo solution at all.............

All that infrastructure is most likely Tengo's equipment. As I have repeatedly said, what works in your office, what works in your neighborhood McDonalds or Starbucks really doesn't translate to the usage in an RV Park. At your office, how many of your several hundred employees are sitting around their cubicles streaming movies? If it is like most offices, many websites are blocked (sports sites, entertainment sites, porn sites etc). Wifi is there to conduct business. That means spread sheets, emails, processing orders etc. That is very low graphics, hence very small data usage. Same with McDonalds or Starbucks. There might, repeat might, be 10 people on the system. Doubtful that any of them are streaming a m movie.
Your problem in your park is almost assuredly the upload portion of wifi. First, most wifi providers upload speeds are around 10 to 20 percent of the download speed. RV parks have many guests who upload large files, which is very uncommon. They upload their daily photos. Today, even phones take HD video, which is a huge bandwidth hog. Get two or three of those being uploaded and the entire network will bog down.
Finally, upload speeds depends on the ability of YOUR device to communicate with the access point. The wifi system in your park has a transmitter that is multiple times faster than the transmitter in your device and has an antenna 100s of times larger than the antenna in yours. On top of that, many device makers (Apple is the worst offender) have de-powered their wifi radios to increase battery life. Even when you are downloading a movie, your device needs to constantly communicate with the server sending the movie. If your device needs to "ping" the access point multiple times to establish each communication, your speed will be close to nil.
The quickest way to test for those issues is to get outside of your rig and check your speeds (speedtest.net is a great resource) as you get closer and closer to an access point. If the speeds increase dramatically, and your device showed a strong signal inside your RV (which you said it did), then the problem is your device communicating with the access point. In that case, your best solution is to use a powered external antenna attached to a router configured as a bridge. A decent system would cost you around $400.00 ($100 for a Ubiquiti Bullet to power the antenna, $200 for a decent sector antenna and $100 for the router).