Advice for newbie

[mrdr]

Looking for first fifth wheel--actually, first RV. Limiting choice to 3/4 ton towable (daily vehicle and do not want anything more). My wife and I will use it full time for a year or two to see the country, then on and off for half of the year thereafter--at least, that is the plan. Priorities are:
1) as trouble free as possible (routine maintenance is expected).
2) well insulated/heated/air conditioned--we will not be camping, but using the rv as our rolling hotel room--think really bad allergies, so windows closed. We will follow the seasons.
3) washer/dryer.
4) max hitch weight about 2,100 lbs--this is probably the limiting factor with our truck.
5) due to 6.5' truck bed, we plan on using a Pullrite SuperGlide hitch, if that matters.

Our options are:
a) SpaceCraft custom.
b) Arctic Fox 29-5T.
c) Used NuWa Hitchhiker II LS or Discover America--I think all Champagnes are too heavy?
d) Used Cameo.
e) Used Triple-E Topaz.

I think that Continental Coach would be too heavy. I know New Horizons is too heavy. We are looking roughly 30-34 feet, depending on weight.

Any preferences regarding these? Thanks all.

[mrdr]

Sorry for the delayed reply--on the road until now.

Donn0128--I appreciate bluntness and am not pissed off by anyone with good intentions, as you seem to be. I am getting the sense that playing with the numbers to stay within weights is the difference between "in theory" and "in practice". It is starting to look as if a sub-30 footer by SpaceCraft with attention paid to weights and layout is the way to go.

APT--my truck specs were hand entered from the sheet my dealer gave me for my truck. I understand the various weights and want to be well within all of them--I do not want to cherry pick a few that work. I have the impression that airbags or other suspension upgrades may work well, but do not change the legal capacities of a truck once spec'd by the manufacturer.

Already own the truck--bought it knowing I would prefer to downsize planned rv than drive a stiffer or bigger truck. I understand others making a different decision, but this is mine. My wife, our German Shepherd, and I all together weigh 320 lbs--so, a little more allowance for the rv and a little less space needed for the three of us. We are not particularly thin, but we are short--I am the tallest at 5'4"--with a custom unit, we can save a lot of weight with lower ceilings (reducing the weight of the walls). Lower height would be limited only by re-sale considerations. I am thinking an even 6' in the bedroom and 6'4" in the living room.

[APT]

mrdr wrote:
Can anyone address the specifics of my truck with Arctic Fox 29-5T (as an example).

I don't believe your "specs". They look copy/pasted from a web site. not what your truck has actually been measured at. But I'll give you the benefit of doubt. You list GVWR at 10k with curb weight at 7383. That leaves 2617 pounds of payload. Take away 250 pounds for the receiver. Take away the weight of you and spouse and anything else you want in the truck while towing. I'll just guess 400 pounds. That leaves under 2000 pounds left before exceeding the truck's GVWR. The dry pin weight of the 29-5T exceeds that, and it will only go up when loaded. So how much would a typical person add? Well, the average weekender adds over 1000 pounds of camping gear. Full timers are closer to 3000 pounds. Take an average of 20% of added weight on the pin and it means somewhere in the 200-600 pound range.

Now some people with 3/4 tons focus on axle ratings instead of GVWR. At least 95% of 5th wheel pin weight is directly on the rear axle when towing. In your case you have almost 4000 pounds of rear axle payload according to your specs listed. Again take off 250 pounds for the receiver, half of the people weight, and you have over 3000 pounds left for pin weight. That makes the 29-5T acceptable for some. You would likely need some kid of rear suspension aid in that case as the springs are a lot lower rating than the axle. Air bags and Timbrens are popular.

I'm curious why you think a single rear wheel 1-ton drive any differently in the city than a 3/4 ton. And do you even have a truck yet or are you shopping both?

[donn0128]

Im going to be as blunt as I can, but I will probably still piss you off. But here goes!
Your going full time, meaning your going to have everything you own in the trailer. That tells anybody with common sense that any RV you have is going to be running at or very near max. Its just the nature of people. Clothes, food, chairs, grill will add up way faster than you can imagine. Yea, you might end up under the trailers GVWR, but based on all the stuff I see other full timers carrying I doubt very much it will happen. Brochure pin weight is listed at the trailers dry weight. Figure it out for yourself. 20% of 10,800 is about 2160 pounds. So even the brochure is probably light. Having owned a Fox I can tell you for certain they are heavy to start with, and your going to not be happy. While you might be able to take each and every little item you load into a fiver and weigh it, then total all item weights. Why? It is far easier to error on the side of caution and take the trailers GVWR, using 20% of that as pin weight. Generally accepted fifth wheel pin weight is between 18 and 25%. So 20% is a reasonable number.
We are not full timers, but do spend a good number of days a year out.
My current fiver has a GVWR of 13,750 pounds and scales at 13,500 pounds. BTW brochure pin weight is 1750. Actual pin weight is north of 3000 pounds. Get the idea? If your insistsnt on a 2500 series truck your going to be limited to fivers with a GVWR around 10,000 pounds. Maybe pushing that a bit, but doing so your just asking for trouble.
My original truck was also a 2500HD. It took me three years before I upgraded to a dually and I have never regretted for one minute that decision. The towing the same trailer with two differe trucks was night and day different.

[mrdr]

I think I need help understanding the weights. Arctic Fox lists GVWR as 15,700 lbs--isn't this max capacity? They list dry weight as 10,800 lbs. I am sure I will go over this with water and "stuff"--but that doesn't mean I have to hit 15,700. They also list dry hitch weight as 2,023 lbs. Again, I am sure I will go over this, but I doubt by 1,000 lbs.

[donn0128]

The Fox your looking at has a GVWR over 15,000 pounds. That translates into a 3,000 pound pin weight. From my experience AF builds a very heavy trailer. No matter how you try to slice it that is going to put you into overloaded country.
Previous truck was a 2500HD D/A ext cab 4X4. Scaled weight with me, wife, and 80 pound dog with some firewood and hitch was 7500 pounds. I seriously doubt a similar truck even a brand new one will scale lighter. I do know new 2500HDs do have a higher GVWR, but still even carefully loading of truck and trailer, and that aint going to happen as a full timer your goingnto constantly exceed the trucks GVWR.
Why is it so difficult for people to simply get the right tool for the job? I just dont understand why people are so stubborn???

[mrdr]

Thanks all. Sorry if I come across as stubborn. Reasons for truck and particulars of desired fifth wheel in original post. Truck specs posted in a reply. Also addressed weight of fuel and hitch. Can anyone address the specifics of my truck with Arctic Fox 29-5T (as an example).

[n7bsn]

RRinNFla wrote:
Two points.

First, don't worry about the naysayers who think you need a 1 ton dually, to tow anything over 5K. I am on my second 5er, and have towed both with a 3/4 ton. I cannot do 70 mph through the mountains, but I don't want to go over 65 anyway.

Second, I would carefully consider if you really want a washer/dryer. They not only add weight to your trailer, they take up a considerable amount of space. In looking at recent models, I did not see anything less that 34' that had a w/d hookup. And you still have to pop an extra $1200 for the w/d. Another consideration is where will all that grey water go. You might be limiting your campsite selection to full hook-up only. If you have a w/d you have to use it regularly, or the seals will dry up. I don't know about you, but I could do a lot of loads at the campground laudry for $1200.

Good point about the W/D. On the Arctic Fox he is considering the weight is right on the pin. It also takes out about 1/3 of the closet.

[newman_fulltime]

So let me get this right you want a fiver that's well built long but weighsthe same as a 25 ft on a good day? washer dryer we don't want rather have the storage space.

[donn0128]

RRinNFla wrote:
Two points.

First, don't worry about the naysayers who think you need a 1 ton dually, to tow anything over 5K. I am on my second 5er, and have towed both with a 3/4 ton. I cannot do 70 mph through the mountains, but I don't want to go over 65 anyway.

Second, I would carefully consider if you really want a washer/dryer. They not only add weight to your trailer, they take up a considerable amount of space. In looking at recent models, I did not see anything less that 34' that had a w/d hookup. And you still have to pop an extra $1200 for the w/d. Another consideration is where will all that grey water go. You might be limiting your campsite selection to full hook-up only. If you have a w/d you have to use it regularly, or the seals will dry up. I don't know about you, but I could do a lot of loads at the campground laudry for $1200.

Good points from a flat lander towing about half the weight of some of the trailers the OP mentioned. Just not at all any help for a wannabe full timer towing a trailer at its maximum GVWR.

[RRinNFla]

Two points.

First, don't worry about the naysayers who think you need a 1 ton dually, to tow anything over 5K. I am on my second 5er, and have towed both with a 3/4 ton. I cannot do 70 mph through the mountains, but I don't want to go over 65 anyway.

Second, I would carefully consider if you really want a washer/dryer. They not only add weight to your trailer, they take up a considerable amount of space. In looking at recent models, I did not see anything less that 34' that had a w/d hookup. And you still have to pop an extra $1200 for the w/d. Another consideration is where will all that grey water go. You might be limiting your campsite selection to full hook-up only. If you have a w/d you have to use it regularly, or the seals will dry up. I don't know about you, but I could do a lot of loads at the campground laudry for $1200.

[Veebyes]

A little confused as to whether the truck has been purchased already or not. In any case that seems to be an awful large vehichle to be be the daily around town get groceries type vehicle.

Why put the wear & tear on it for around town errands?

I'd be looking for something small & cheap to run for the local vehicle. Something along the lines of a Honda Fit, or many others similar.

For the truck, well that is governed by the trailer size. If the plan is to live in it for a year straight 30' or less will get real small real fast. Go much over 30' & you are into 1 ton trucks if you want to feel comfortable in being well under weight specs & not doing all kinds of mods to make up for stock truck limits.

Lots of numbers to juggle. Get a used car cheap now & put saved money towards a more capable truck & larger trailer later?

[donn0128]

The OP does not want to believe, so all that is left is to let him make the mistakes. This is another, I know what I want, now need some people to support my thinking, threads. No matter what he will not be convinced until he sees with his own eyes. At the endmof the day it is afterall his choice to be wrong.

[csamayfield55x]

Holy cow!! I just looked those unit's up!! OP, if you seriously are looking at the ones you listed you need to be in a 1 ton dually if not a MDT!! Those things are not trailers, they are luxury condo's on wheels!!! Go big or go home HUH?

Chris

[APT]

Where did the 2100 pounds for pin weight come from? That's about a 10k loaded 5er. And if that is all your payload, then you need to take off the weight of people and 5er receiver. If you do not already have that pickup, at least get the SRW 1-ton for about 1400 pounds more payload.