Some Beginner questions (weights, trailer length, etc.)

[tfirma]

Hello!

This forum is a fantastic resource - a big thank you in advance to all of those folks taking the time to help us newbies! 🙂

I did search around for some answers to my questions below, but in some cases I still wasn't 100% sure, so I will post some below (my apologies since I know some of these have been asked many times before!)

Regarding weights/limits/etc. I am looking to purchase a Range Rover that has a towing capacity of 7,700

If I understand correctly, the Dry Hitch Weight is the part of the weight of the trailer that should be added to the weight capacity of the towing vehicle weight? So, if I have 1,700 lbs of "carrying weight" to play with on the vehicle, do I immediately subtract the 700lbs of dry hitch weight listed in the trailer specs?

So - I have to concern myself, primarily with the "fully loaded" weight of the trailer (UVW + any cargo) and then the weight of my towing vehicle (GVWR, to include the dry hitch weight?)

I was happy to see that many of the trailers that interest me are under 7,700 lbs, GVWR, but I see MANY different opinions across the forums on the practical usage of these specs. I've seen some folks say never to tow more that 80% of the weights seen in the specs. So my 2nd question is for folks that might also have used/seen an SUV tow a larger trailer... Generally speaking, how difficult of a prospect is that in reality?

Moreover, from reading the posts of others, even if I am within the weight restrictions, a trailer that is close to 30' long hooked up to a considerable shorter tow vehicle sounds like it is VERY problematic. I know it's the classic question/trade-off, but because I don't want to "white knuckle" my drive, do folks here think it makes sense to stick to a trailer closer to the length of the tow vehicle?

Thanks very much - I'm anxious to go get my new towing vehicle and trailer, and your advice is very much appreciated! I'm not looking to get a truck - I really need to stick to the SUV for other practical purposes, so my decision mostly hinges on having an SUV (if not the Range Rover, something else) that probably maxes at around 7,700 towing capacity.

Thanks again!
Tom

[ncrowley]

I am sorry - I said I had a Ford Wrangler and it was the original Ford Bronco. The Bronco was pretty big when it first same out.

[anaro]

a few things. As others have mentioned a short wheelbase can be problematic with a longer trailer as you can easily get tail wagging the dog type feelings. Couple that with a trailer pushing the limits of the tow vehicle and it quickly gets scary. How do I know? I've been there with an Armada and a 30' TT. The armada had a tow rating of 9100 lbs but only had an available payload of 800 lbs. my TT weighs 7000 lbs loaded and has a tongue weight of close to 1000 lbs. I used everything I knew from 20 yrs of towing horse trailers to keep it under control. The engine struggled going up mountains and we struggled coming down mountains.

I taught my husband how to drive the TT with that rig. He knew it felt uncomfortable and difficult to keep straight on the road but has admitted as a towing newbie he would never have known that wasn't right. After not having enough truck to control the TT coming down a mountain in VA we upgraded to an F250 diesel. Towing is fun again. DH couldn't believe the difference having the right tow vehicle for the job made. I'm not saying run out and buy a diesel. What I would do is look at TT and see what size and weight you really want and then buy the tow vehicle that can really handle it with lots of room to spare. The extra room to spare gives you TT upgrade room as most only keep their 1st TT for a year or two before trading on something bigger or heavier. When buying the tow vehicle remember a longer wheel base is better.


As for the hitch there is no such thing as integrated wdh into the tow vehicle. Some have built in sway control but you should really gave an antisway device on top of that. The wdh is a platform style hitch head that plugs into your tow vehicles receiver. It transfers some of the tongue weight off the rear axle forward onto the front axle and back onto the trailer. This helps level the TV out preventing an oversteer or an under steer condition when adjusted properly. WDH can be purchased as just wdh or as a wdh with integrated sway control. Sway control can be a friction sway bar or integrated sway control (like Reese dual cam or equal-i-zer). Typically friction sway bars are only recommended for trailers up to 26' over that you really should have integrated sway control. Check your hitch ratings to see at what tongue weight wdh is required. Also check your manual as some smaller tow vehicles do not recommend wdh... I believe the range rover has a wdh recommendation for over a certain tongue weight though. Another thing, make sure your tow vehicle has a towing package with a transmission cooler. You want a good brake controller also. ideally you want either an integrated brake controller or a proportional brake controller (like prodigy p2 or p3) not a time based brake controller.

here are some pics of different types of sway control for you.'

wdh w/integrated sway control pics

Reese dual cam



equalizer


friction sway bars




Here is some reading to help you out....

wdh on etrailer

how stuff works


rv.net how wdh works

rv.net how to set up wdh

[sdetweil]

tfirma wrote:


Thank you! My apologies, it's a 2013 5.0L V8 Supercharged 4dr AWD
http://autos.aol.com/cars-Land+Rover-Range+Rover-2014/specs/

the detailed specs for the Supercharged version

Weights: gross vehicle weight (lbs): 7,055, published curb weight (lbs): 5,137, gross trailer weight braked (lbs): 7,716 and payload allowance (lbs): 1,918

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2014/land_rover/range_rover/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz2hvAaHksV

[tfirma]

bikendan wrote:
you have it backwards, i think.
since you don't specify what year or model Range Rover you're talking about, some may have built-in SWAY CONTROL, not WDH. without knowing specs on it, hard to say for sure.

a WDH is an added item that goes into the vehicle's receiver and you attach the trailer to the ball on the WDH.
sway control can be integrated into some WDH's or as an add-on to some WDH's.
but some newer vehicles have their own computerized sway control built into the vehicle. comes with the factory tow package.

i don't think you'll have any problems with a 17'-18' TT but can't say for sure without more info on what RR you're talking about.

Thank you! My apologies, it's a 2013 5.0L V8 Supercharged 4dr AWD
http://autos.aol.com/cars-Land+Rover-Range+Rover-2014/specs/

[sdetweil]

tfirma wrote:
A huge thank you to all that have answered - I really appreciate the great advice!

OK - so I also know this has been discussed frequently - but once again I've seen a variety of answers!

If I have all of my weights figured out (thanks to folks here, I was very conservative, making sure I adjusted all weights upward for the "extras" not shown in the manufacture specs)

So, if I fit out the TV with high end sway control and a WDH (I believe the WDH is integrated in the vehicle already) - are there passionate thoughts either way as to whether my desired TT is too long for a beginner with no experience? Per the advice in this forum, I had planned to take it to some parking lots to practice... but there is no way to practice hitting strong winds when you're driving ~50-60 MPH on a highway with trucks around you! A bit nervous, but still excited at this venture... I certainly will listen to reality - not just what I want to hear! 🙂

Range Rover Wheelbase is 115"
Would like to tow a 17-18' trailer

Thank you very much.

I have had a bumper pull trailer get out of control and push the TV across 4 lanes of highway sideways.. never want to feel THAT again.

I have towed a 29ft TT with a Safari Van, with an improperly adjusted weight distributing hitch, talk about white knuckle!.. stupid.

I replaced the Safari with a Suburban, and added a better WD hitch and TWO friction anti sway devices.. much better.

I tow a 20 ft enclosed car hauler, flat front, 7000lbs loaded, and behind a suburban, with WDH and friction-anti sway, we did 3500 miles of uncomfortable highway towing, with uncomfortable sway.. I was a nervous wreck when anyone else was driving!

We replaced the suburban with a ford superduty, longbed, and the sway went away completely! that extra weight and wheelbase (172") made SUCH a difference. (still using DWH and anti sway device)

WD hitches do NOT come with the TV or the TT. they are extra.

You will be right at or over the limits with your planned TV. I personally wouldn't use this TV, except maybe to take the TT into service, and only by myself, and less than 50 miles one way.

[tbred]

I believe the member here who go's by the name WoodGlue tows a similar size trailer with a Land Rover. You could always reach out to him for some information.

[bikendan]

you have it backwards, i think.
since you don't specify what year or model Range Rover you're talking about, some may have built-in SWAY CONTROL, not WDH. without knowing specs on it, hard to say for sure.

a WDH is an added item that goes into the vehicle's receiver and you attach the trailer to the ball on the WDH.
sway control can be integrated into some WDH's or as an add-on to some WDH's.
but some newer vehicles have their own computerized sway control built into the vehicle. comes with the factory tow package.

i don't think you'll have any problems with a 17'-18' TT but can't say for sure without more info on what RR you're talking about.

[tfirma]

A huge thank you to all that have answered - I really appreciate the great advice!

OK - so I also know this has been discussed frequently - but once again I've seen a variety of answers!

If I have all of my weights figured out (thanks to folks here, I was very conservative, making sure I adjusted all weights upward for the "extras" not shown in the manufacture specs)

So, if I fit out the TV with high end sway control and a WDH (I believe the WDH is integrated in the vehicle already) - are there passionate thoughts either way as to whether my desired TT is too long for a beginner with no experience? Per the advice in this forum, I had planned to take it to some parking lots to practice... but there is no way to practice hitting strong winds when you're driving ~50-60 MPH on a highway with trucks around you! A bit nervous, but still excited at this venture... I certainly will listen to reality - not just what I want to hear! 🙂

Range Rover Wheelbase is 115"
Would like to tow a 17-18' trailer

Thank you very much.

[anaro]

ncrowley wrote:
I had a Ford Wrangler - the large 8 cylinder ones. I had it all set up to tow a horse trailer. There was no issue with the power of the engine or the rated capacity. The issue was the wheel base. The wheel base was about what you are considering. What I found was when the trailer was blown sideways due to wind or a truck going by, the truck went with it. Yes, I had an equalizer hitch with sway bars. I loved that truck but pulling with it was just too hair raising. I changed to a full sized truck and pulling was a much better experience.

do you mean jeep wrangler or ford ranger?

[ncrowley]

I had a Ford Wrangler - the large 8 cylinder ones. I had it all set up to tow a horse trailer. There was no issue with the power of the engine or the rated capacity. The issue was the wheel base. The wheel base was about what you are considering. What I found was when the trailer was blown sideways due to wind or a truck going by, the truck went with it. Yes, I had an equalizer hitch with sway bars. I loved that truck but pulling with it was just too hair raising. I changed to a full sized truck and pulling was a much better experience.

[bikendan]

hitch capacity or payload will be the bigger issue more than the trailer weight, for the Range Rover.
also, with that short of a wheelbase, look at a Hensley or ProPride WDH.
and don't make the newbie mistake of believing brochure/website "dry" weight numbers. those are only for a stripped-down trailer and not real world numbers.
start with the trailer's yellow weight sticker number. that's a much better number to start with.

[anaro]

You need to know more about your trucks capabilities than just my truck can tow x lbs. (I learned this the hard way). Most TV are limited by their payload. To find out your TVs true towing capacities then you need to go weigh it. Load the tv up with all occupants, pets, and cargo that will be in it when towing plus a full tank of fuel and then go weigh it at a local scale (www.catscale.com). Weigh each axle on a separate scale pad so it will give you a breakdown of front and rear axle weights individually and a total weight. Take the total weight and subtract it from your Trucks gvwr to get your available payload. Take the scaled Truck weight and subtract it from your Truck gcwr to get your adjusted towng capacity. Not owning the truck, you can look at the sticker inside the drivers door. It should say "occupants and cargo not to exceed x lbs". take the weight and subtract the weight of you, any passengers and pets plus any gear you plan to have in the truck when towing. The number left is a rough estimate of your available payload. You need a loaded tongue weight less than this number.

Now understand you will never tow an unloaded or dry trailer. Those numbers are somewhat irrelevant. You can either add the amount of weight of cargo you will tow to the dry weight (this is heavier than you think as most add 1000-1500 lb of gear) or simply use the tt gvwr to do your calculations. (for your purposes do all weight calculations using TT gvwr). Next understand that the tt loaded tongue weight needs to be subtracted from your available payload. The loaded tongue weight is typically 13-15% of the loaded tt weight. The dry tongue weight doesn't even include propane or battery. Also anything placed in the trailer in front of the axles will add to your tongue weight. For your purposes 13-15% of the TT gvwr will be an easier calculation to figure out.

An example here (totally made up numbers from fictional vehicle).... curb weight on scale loaded with passengers and gear: 8500 lbs. TV gvwr 10000 lbs. you have 1500 lbs available payload for a loaded tongue weight. On the fictional trailer, there is a dry weight of 5700 lbs and gvwr of 7700 lbs. Said trailer actually scales in at 7000 lbs loaded. 15% of the loaded (7000 lbs) weight is 1050 lbs. Fictional truck may also have a door sticker that says occupants not to exceed 1700 lbs but with pets, passengers and gear you are down to 1500 lbs available payload.

[tbred]

Just an fyi, the brochure dry weight on my tt was listed as 6800. The yellow sticker on the trailer as optioned is actually 7400. Big difference, don't trust advertised weight if it's gonna be a close call.

[eluwak]

SUVs tend to have it rough because lots of folks buy them to haul family, which can eat up that 1700 payload a bit. I know there's folks on here that tow with RRs, so I'll let them speak on that, but you are correct in that the tongue weight of the trailer and weight of the hitch will subtract from the payload. Keep in mind that the tongue weight for a properly balanced trailer is usually between 12-15% of the total weight of the trailer. Brochure dry hitch weights don't give a good picture of what your actual tongue weight will be because they don't include options on the trailer, propane in the tanks, or even the battery sometimes.

Good luck in your search! 🙂