Tow vehicle selection & performance

[Chamerican]

To start, we're strongly considering purchasing the Grand Design 2400bh but we need to upgrade our tow vehicle as well. Bottom line up front: We're a military family that moves frequently and I want to be sure the tow vehicle comfortably pulls the 2400 in all conditions (mountain driving/flat/etc) without excessive strain on the vehicle. I've been doing a fair bit of research and am hoping someone can provide some insight on whether my assumptions are correct? We're new to RV'ing so everything below is based on my research as opposed to experience. We are considering a large SUV vs. a truck primarily because the tow vehicle will also be the vehicle for my wife and kids. Based on my calcs concerning GVW/GCWR/GTWR/etc, my assumption is that a truck (F150'/Tundra/Chevy 1500) would be more than sufficient to tow the 2400bh but the large SUV we're considering has lower numbers and therein lies my concern before pulling the trigger. My concern grew when we rented a 3500lb trailer (+500lbs cargo) and my V6 4Runner struggled to pull it. Additionally, I plan on using a weight distribution hitch. What I'm interested in finding out is how those of you with way more experience think our selected tow vehicle will pull the 2400. If the margin is too tight, then we may consider going the truck route but I'd really like to stick with the large SUV for several personal reasons.

Trailer assumptions/estimates-
UVW: 5595 (+ dealer options?).
Hitch: 505
GVWR: 7495
Fresh water: 52 gal/435 lbs.
Gas/battery: 135 lbs
Cargo: 700lbs (best guess)
GVW: 6865 lbs

2017 Nissan Armada (Tahoe/Yukon has similar #'s)
5.6L V8, 7 spd xmsn, final ratio 2.97, 4x4
GVWR: 7500 lbs
GCVWR: 14700 lbs
Tongue cap: 850
Tow cap: 8500 lbs
GVW: 6387 (curb wt + pax + cargo)
Adj. Tow cap: 8313 lbs (GCWR-GVW)
*tow package + self leveling rear suspension

6685 + 6387 = 13,072 (GCW). This number is 12% less than the Armada's 14,700 GCWR.

Based on what I've read, it seems to be a recommendation that one should keep the GTW roughly 20% below the adjusted tow capacity (?) of the selected tow vehicle- or should the GCW be 20% less than the tow vehicle's GCWR? Is this based on safety and tow performance?

Using the above numbers, the loaded trailer is sitting at approx. 18% of the adjusted tow cap for the vehicle/GCW is 12% less than the GCWR. Using these numbers, I seem to be within the weight/towing capability of the Armada/Yukon but am I missing anything? My understanding is that I may be within its capacity but is there enough vehicle performance to comfortably tow the trailer on mountain roads/hills/etc? With the year-end deals happening now, our plan is to purchase the SUV and subsequently the trailer. So, I want to make darn sure I make the right decision on the tow vehicle.

I'd really appreciate any insight you can offer, something I've missed, or anything that you'd recommend we consider. It's a lot of $$ to spend and I'd hate to go pick up the trailer and realize I've made a huge mistake with tow vehicle selection. We currently live in FL but there's a possibility that we'll soon be moving to a place with a lot of mountain camping and I can't think of a way we can practically test the performance of the tow vehicle with the 2400 without all this guessing. Thanks in advance for the help!

[Chamerican]

valhalla360 wrote:
Unless you have a real strong need that it be an SUV, I would go with a 4door 1/2 ton pickup.

If you get a short bed, it's not that much bigger but you can dial in the drivetrain to be better suited to towing.

Yep, I totally agree but a truck doesn't fit our family's needs at the moment- hence the strong desire for a large SUV.

[APT]

Friends of ours tow a Cruiser Radiance 28QD with a 2017 Armada. IT tows well, has plenty of power, and handles okay with a well adjusted WDH.

[valhalla360]

Unless you have a real strong need that it be an SUV, I would go with a 4door 1/2 ton pickup.

If you get a short bed, it's not that much bigger but you can dial in the drivetrain to be better suited to towing.

[Lwiddis]

I’m not a fan of full time living in an RV for a family. I suggest base or private “real” housing. By the time you buy the TV and TT plus pay for the RV site I don’t think you’ll be “money ahead.”

[theoldwizard1]

RinconVTR wrote:
If I were you, I'd hold out for the 2018 Ford Expedition ...

The Lincoln gets the higher horsepower and torque version (from the F150 Raptor) of that same engine !

[RinconVTR]

I tow a 2800BH with a Sequoia and Hensley Hitch. My weights per scale are just short of max...meaning I'm maxed out. But I just towed from Wisconsin to Cali this year, over 3 weeks, 6000 miles actual towing, and was absolutely satisfied.

That said, I do not recommend anyone new to RVing to tow anything near max.

There are larger SUV's that will tow that 2400BH just fine, but I do still HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Hensley or Propride for any SUV or 1/2 truck for TT's of this size.

Suburbans and Expeditions are an excellent choice and will give you more margin compare to the Sequoia and more wheelbase. The Armada's do not have a great reputation and the latest Generation isn't selling well...so who knows.

If I were you, I'd hold out for the 2018 Ford Expedition and once again...plan for a Hensley or Propride WDH. They are well worth the extra effort and cost.

[drsteve]

Chamerican wrote:


Unfortunately, no. I've searched the Armada forums and found a number of people who are towing boats, etc of similar or smaller size but frankly their responses didn't give me a warm and fuzzy that anyone did much homework. The gear ratio is a question I need answered somehow since everything I've ready suggests a ratio closer to 4ish. The grunt is my main concern with my questions. I'm pretty assured that I'm within the capacities, it's just a question of how well a vehicle tows within 20% of its capacity and how the torque/Hp would factor in?

You can disregard the experiences of the boat guys. Boats are far more aerodynamic, and they place less tongue weight on the tow vehicle.

As to gearing, get the highest number available.

I do tend to agree with those who suggest a large van for the payload. Payload is usually the weak link for any SUV or half ton truck.

[wanderingaimles]

Chamerican wrote:

prichardson wrote:
While by the numbers it would work I don't think you would be happy with the performance. I would not consider anything with a rear end higher than 3.55 a decent tow vehicle. A 2.95 would be a real dog towing.

My thought as well but do you think the 7 speed transmission has any correlation? I get the very, very basic principle of final gear ratio so my guess is that highway speeds in 7 would lag but acceleration would be good? I may be over simplifying...

I see that that tranny has tow mode standard. But it looks like you would need to be able to lock it at 5th gear to get the final ratio up enough to get into a good towing range. Does it have controls to allow you to determine that?

Gear ratio (:1)

2WD
1st 4.887
2nd 3.170
3rd 2.027
4th 1.412
5th 1.000
6th 0.864
7th 0.775
TBD

2.937
Final drive ratio (:1)

[Chamerican]

prichardson wrote:
While by the numbers it would work I don't think you would be happy with the performance. I would not consider anything with a rear end higher than 3.55 a decent tow vehicle. A 2.95 would be a real dog towing.

My thought as well but do you think the 7 speed transmission has any correlation? I get the very, very basic principle of final gear ratio so my guess is that highway speeds in 7 would lag but acceleration would be good? I may be over simplifying...

[Chamerican]

Apologies, accidental double post

[Chamerican]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

Chamerican wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
The Armada's load capacity is sufficient as well with 1741 lbs, even with kids growing and "stuff" they want with them you should be ok. The only thing I would question is that if memory serves correctly, the Armada does not have a truck style frame. Unibody construction can work well and save weight in a car type of usage, but I have always been nervous especially in using a weight distributing hitch with unibody construction.
JM2C

Good point but part of why we're looking at the Armada is that it's body on frame. The 2017 was a redesign and based on Nissan's international equivalent and the Infiniti QX

Then I would think gear ratio and having enough grunt is the only real concern left. Any ideas on how well that tranny holds up to towing?

Unfortunately, no. I've searched the Armada forums and found a number of people who are towing boats, etc of similar or smaller size but frankly their responses didn't give me a warm and fuzzy that anyone did much homework. The gear ratio is a question I need answered somehow since everything I've ready suggests a ratio closer to 4ish. The grunt is my main concern with my questions. I'm pretty assured that I'm within the capacities, it's just a question of how well a vehicle tows within 20% of its capacity and how the torque/Hp would factor in?

[wanderingaimles]

Chamerican wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
The Armada's load capacity is sufficient as well with 1741 lbs, even with kids growing and "stuff" they want with them you should be ok. The only thing I would question is that if memory serves correctly, the Armada does not have a truck style frame. Unibody construction can work well and save weight in a car type of usage, but I have always been nervous especially in using a weight distributing hitch with unibody construction.
JM2C

Good point but part of why we're looking at the Armada is that it's body on frame. The 2017 was a redesign and based on Nissan's international equivalent and the Infiniti QX

Then I would think gear ratio and having enough grunt is the only real concern left. Any ideas on how well that tranny holds up to towing?

[DrewE]

I don't know if you've thought of it, but you might want to consider a full-sized van as a tow vehicle. Many of them can be equipped to tow a trailer of that size and have a good bit of payload left over. (The Nissan NV3500, for example, has about a thousand pounds more payload capacity than the Armada.)

I'm far from an expert on such things, but the Armada looks to me to be rather on the marginal side for towing that trailer. It may be worth checking if there are specifications on frontal area for trailers for the vehicles--sometimes manufacturers specify that as well as weight. On the highway, you're not just pulling the weight with an RV, you're also adding a good bit of aerodynamic drag.

[Chamerican]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
The Armada's load capacity is sufficient as well with 1741 lbs, even with kids growing and "stuff" they want with them you should be ok. The only thing I would question is that if memory serves correctly, the Armada does not have a truck style frame. Unibody construction can work well and save weight in a car type of usage, but I have always been nervous especially in using a weight distributing hitch with unibody construction.
JM2C

Good point but part of why we're looking at the Armada is that it's body on frame. The 2017 was a redesign and based on Nissan's international equivalent and the Infiniti QX