2016 Health Insurance Premiums

[tjfogelberg]

Those of us in the private health insurance market in Minnesota are being socked with 40-50% increases in premiums eff 1-1-16. I may have to put the RV up on blocks and park it in the driveway. I have asked my Senator to work toward renaming the Affordable Care Act. It is an insult to have the word "AFFORDABLE" in it's title. My individual premium and deductible will now exceed $10,000 for 2016.

Todd

[Walaby]

Shearwater wrote:
I would CHOOSE to get my prescriptions in Canada because some identical drugs cost 25% of US prices.

And I support your choice. I don't have a problem with you doing that. Im assuming insurance companies don't pay for it, so you are exercising your right to choose, and using competition to get the best price.

No one is saying our system is perfect, but it is a **** sight better than any example of socialized medicine.

I don't have a problem with reforming our healthcare insurance programs. I do have a problem with single payer, and anything else that further reduces competition. We need to expand competition and breakdown barriers. It's a complex issue, but the solution is NOT more government oversight, and government control.

Mike

[Walaby]

Shearwater wrote:

In this country there is also no financial incentive to be the best. Insurance companies or Medicare set a price for every procedure and the physician gets paid the same whether they are the best or the worst. The only way to get paid more is to do more procedures, just like in Germany.

Not true.. Different insurance companies pay differently for the same procedure. I've done a direct comparison on that.

And, OBTW, if you are a neurosurgeon at John Hopkins, I am quite sure you get paid more than a neurosurgeon in middle Georgia. Regardless of what the insurance company pays. There is absolutely competition amongst doctors to be the best in their profession, and get compensated accordingly.

[Shearwater]

Walaby wrote:
Yes, you are right, there are botched surgeries on all sides. But, I will take my chances with our current medical system. You see, in Germany, for example, the "government" pays everyone the same for a procedure. So, there is NO incentive for one doctor, or surgeon to be the best at his craft, because he gets NO additional compensation for being the best. The only incentive is to get more procedures done than the next guy. That encourages cut corners and sub standard performance.

In this country there is also no financial incentive to be the best. Insurance companies or Medicare set a price for every procedure and the physician gets paid the same whether they are the best or the worst. The only way to get paid more is to do more procedures, just like in Germany.

[Walaby]

steveh27 wrote:
Mike,

There are many similar botched surgeries in the US. Our messed up insurance system has nothing to do with doctors errors.

You and I will just have to disagree. I can argue with you for days on the fallacies of social medicine. I am half German, I have a German cousin, who is an orthopedic surgeon in Germany. I have first hand knowledge of the problems with socialized medicine.

Yes, you are right, there are botched surgeries on all sides. But, I will take my chances with our current medical system. You see, in Germany, for example, the "government" pays everyone the same for a procedure. So, there is NO incentive for one doctor, or surgeon to be the best at his craft, because he gets NO additional compensation for being the best. The only incentive is to get more procedures done than the next guy. That encourages cut corners and sub standard performance.

Mike

[Walaby]

fitznj wrote:

I came to this country 33 years ago with the clothes on my back and $400 in my pocket. Never took a dime from the government, never asked for a handout, worked extremely hard and retired "comfortably" this year at the age of 57.
GErry

That is the most refreshing thing I've seen out of this thread. Congrats Gerry. It's these types of successes that make our country great.

Unfortunately, I believe we are increasingly becoming a what have you done for me lately nation. Liberals just want more "free stuff", and it's an easy way for liberal leaders to buy votes. Nothing is free my friends... "Free" phone, internet, healthcare, food, utilities, housing.. All cost someone else something. Unfortunately too many of our citizens don't get it.

Mike

[fitznj]

Wallaby Wrote:

"Profit is NOT EVIL folks. Our society would not be where we are today, if it were not for capitalism, and people pursuing the "almighty dollar".

So refreshing to here this. Over the past 8 years all I hear on the media is how EVIL making a profit is and how evil the "rich" are. As Wallaby said, capitalism is what made this country great.

I came to this country 33 years ago with the clothes on my back and $400 in my pocket. Never took a dime from the government, never asked for a handout, worked extremely hard and retired "comfortably" this year at the age of 57.

Do I mind paying > $1,200/month for health insurance? No, not really, the tax rate was so low here (relative to where I came from ) that financially I come out on top if I factor what Europeans REALLY are paying for health insurance and the level of service.

Folks - this is a GREAT country, with phenomenal opportunities and a exceptionally standard of living. Both my parents were refugees from war-torn counties who at the age of 20 had NOTHING. They knew hunger daily, they lived in misery for several years, then worked hard and pulled themselves up.

Don't knock Capitalism too much - it's why we live well.

GErry

[steveh27]

Mike,

There are many similar botched surgeries in the US. Our messed up insurance system has nothing to do with doctors errors.

[Walaby]

My sister, and niece are "victims" of the great health care that Germany has to offer. My sister, while she is a US citizen, got married in Germany, to a German and stayed there, working for the US. She had botched shoulder surgery where they surgeon cut a tendon too short, and, instead of doing something right about it, he ignored it, sewed her up, and she has had issues ever since.

Another doctor put a breast inplant in (sister had breast cancer), that contained industrial silicone. Doctor is in hiding, and has been in hiding for decades. Didn't come out until recently.

So, yeah, I'll pass on socialized medicine, thank you.

Mike

[steveh27]

wing_zealot wrote:

steveh27 wrote:
... I am not an expert on the differences in them, but they provide better outcomes than ours at a lower overall cost. Providers will have much lower overhead.

You seemed to have missed the point of the whole article. They don't provide better outcomes at lower cost. And if you end up with something really bad, your health care get's really sketchy. Seeing as you live in GPW, ever talk to someone from Canada? You may find it enlightening. I have!

Wing, in my previous post I quoted your article which did say those other countries DID provide better outcomes at lower cost!

I have talked to Canadians (I live in the only part of the continental US which is directly north of Canada). But my original point wasn't that Canada's SP plan was best, but there are many countries SP plans which are better than our mess and we should meld together the best of all to form our own SP. I think you're going to disagree with that & I'll just accept that we can't agree.

[wing_zealot]

steveh27 wrote:
... I am not an expert on the differences in them, but they provide better outcomes than ours at a lower overall cost. Providers will have much lower overhead.

You seemed to have missed the point of the whole article. They don't provide better outcomes at lower cost. And if you end up with something really bad, your health care get's really sketchy. Seeing as you live in GPW, ever talk to someone from Canada? You may find it enlightening. I have!

[westernrvparkow]

dahkota wrote:
Believe it or not, even with single payer, one can get supplemental insurance. So, those more well off will still be able to get their 'better service.'

Without the ACA, I was trapped in a job so I could have health insurance. I quit my job the day after the ACA went into effect - I could have health insurance without a job.

I could have purchased COBRA and retired, but the rate was double of what I am currently paying with my ACA plan (and no, I don't get subsidies). The plan was also an HMO with a cap of $1million/year and no max out of pocket. Now I have a PPO with no cap and a max out of pocket of $6500.

So, before the ACA, I could have paid $6K a year with the potential of going into medical bankruptcy owing hundreds of thousands of $ if I had a catastrophic health problem. After the ACA I pay $4K per year with the potential of a max of $11K per year if I have a catastrophic health problem.

While I am not happy my rates are going up, I am much more relaxed knowing I don't have to worry about the what ifs. A friend of mine recently died after a two year battle with colon cancer. The last three months were spent in a hospital. The bill was way over $1 million. She was thankful for her better health insurance.

If your premiums are $4000 per year, you are either 20 years old or are getting a federal subsidy. If you are getting a subsidy, fine. But that is just the system shifting the costs from you to someone else (me and other tax payers). It is a zero sum game, for every winner (you) there has to be a loser. You said you had a job, but quit it because now you can get subsidized healthcare. I really don't have a problem subsidizing the less fortunate, but I do have a problem subsidizing your early retirement. Kind of like when I am in line at the grocery store and the person in front of me is using the food stamp benefit card to pay for their purchases. If the purchase is staples, I am fine. If they are getting lobsters, steaks and cracked crab, not so fine. You using the ACA to subsidize your early retirement is a not so fine in my book.

[Walaby]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Actually, it is only one of a herd of elephants. But guess what, you can be as healthy, skinny and active as a professional athlete and I can be as fat as the fat man in a circus side show. You can eat all the kale and soy you want and I can subsist on a diet of chocolate and fried ice cream and we will pay the exact same premiums for insurance because the system has decided that to be politically and socially correct insurance rates can only be based on age. How about tweaking the system to where the maximum rate is the age based rate and the insurance companies can compete for the healthy people by offering them discounts, you know, kind of like car insurance companies complete for good drivers and safer cars by offering lower rates and discounts. Open it up across state lines so a California company and a Georgia insurer can compete to get healthy, no claims me. But that would mean the poor obese, inactive couch potato will be discriminated against. That would mean the poor, lazy shopper would be discriminated against. So the heck with choices, just dumb the system down to the lowest common denominator and charge the same fat, lazy rate to everyone and if that invisible border between your state and the state 5 miles away means you have to pay $300 month more for your insurance, tough. Because we all know that crossing state lines is difficult, I mean who hasn't spent 3 hours at the Kentucky/Tennessee Border crossing getting their documents in order.

Well said!

[westernrvparkow]

travelnutz wrote:
fitznj,

Horray for you as you said it as it actually is!!!

Our Son bought the controlling interest of and owned a mid-sized manufacturing operation in the Milands of England. Moved family there to run it and it was mind boggling what he experienced with the single payer healthcare system for his employees and the actual outragous true expense/cost for it by both the employees and the employer for second class at best healthcare. Exactly what you'd said in your own post here. Long lines, cheapest type inadequate care possible regardless, so often treated like numbers or animals - not humans, extremely high taxes which constantly rose for all yearly for very poor iffy care.

Your comment on British teeth is the absolute terrible truth and is so obvious. Been there personally and seen it so many times along with most people. So many having other real health issues which were only partially cared for due to costs and cheaping out methods used. It was and is SICKENING!

Although his operation was very profitable, he so sorely missed what we have here in the USA and sold his manufacturing operation and moved back here. He refers to the single payer healthcare system as "3rd world conscript could careless"! People here talk big and are so gullible and misled. Seeing it firsthand is an eyeopener! The ACA is not nor will it be affordable as it's leads to the smae failed systems other nations have experienced and/or are experiencing. Absolutely no incentive to excel for workers in the healthcare system nor in the research and development of new drugs and vaccines as there's nothing to be gained for them. Just a job had with NO carrot at the end of the stick so why eventry to reach it? It's not there and they aren't stupid!

It's just like acomparison to the average union member as you are a number and will only advance by seniority as older members retire, die, or quit. Not according your own abilities or hard relentless effort constantly put forth. Means nothing! Why do so many American people think so many employees quit their captive employment, scrape together all the $$$ they can and get huge loans by mortgaging their future to go thru mountains of legal stuff and very long hours to start their own business even though approx 95% on new businesses will fail in the first 5 years??? It's the chance to innovate and succeed that they will never have being an owned and controlled conscript! The very same is true in medical and/or healthcare and/or medical research but there's NO carrot or real winnings at the end of the stick with single payer system or the ACA Act which comes with very high taxation, ever very fast increasing citizen costs, government controlled, and a one size fits all regardless! Take away profit potential and there is NO incentive at all to actually succeed!!! What's to gain? Can't spend to or raise a family on pride alone!

We don't often agree, but this is SPOT ON!!

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Walaby wrote:


OBTW - my primary care doctor personally apologized to me because he is spending more time dealing with government regulations, that take away from his time to provide me with the services I am accustomed to. He used to call me at home, at night and follow up on some issues with my wife and I. He quit doing that because he was just too swamped with govt bureaucracy, and too tired to follow up outside of office hours. So, yeah, lets levy even MORE bureaucracy on my doctor.

I think the fear of malpractice suits and the price of THEIR insurance is driving a lot of caring Family Practitioners into joining larger conglomerations? I'm seeing that happen in our area, and when it does, that Personal Touch goes out the window.

Sometimes common sense goes out the window, too. A dear friend of mine stepped on a log that was underwater, and a sharp piece of branch punctured his water shoes and foot last April. The ER gave him some antibiotics, crutches, and sent him home. When the hole in his foot grew bigger and still constantly drained pus, he went back; and they gave him different antibiotics. He told them he could see a dark spot under the skin - they said "it will take care of itself". Finally, in August, after a third round of antibiotics (Levaquin) gave him a severe case of tendinitis as a side effect, he took an Xacto knife and a pair of tweezers and did his own surgery. He extracted 2 pieces of wood the size of large vitamin pills; and the hole immediately healed.

Furthermore, fear of malpractice prevents small urban health clinics from being formed, so when a mom has a child with the flu - she must go to the emergency room at the hospital, which costs a TON. (And ties up resources designed for trauma cases).