87. Volt. Are you on the fence about buying surge protection

[cbshoestring]

I was told A/C could not be used, and friends who have stayed by the lake warned it was a single receptacle. Still, I paid for electric, I hoped I could at least make coffee.

87 volts when it first cycled, 94 by the time I took the pic, then rolled up my power cord

I guess we will run the fridge on propane, limit our battery use. I plugged Mr Coffee directly into the pole. Better a $20
00 coffee pot..inverters are expensive.

I guess I can re-hook to the truck for a daily "recharge".

[img][/img]

[SoundGuy]

rockhillmanor wrote:
How many have of you have ever encountered an upside down outlet in a shore station
and had to improvise to get plugged in? :B:B

Yeah, happened to me at a nearby conservation area which had recently opened a new campground loop. Not only was the 30 amp outlet upside down but it had been installed with a flip down plastic cover that prevented plugging in a standard 30 amp male connector. Obviously no one took notice or bothered to actually check to see if this would work as several campsites around me were the same. I notified the gatehouse and a short while later a maintenance guy (whom I doubt had any electrical expertise at all) showed up, pulled the cover off, and flipped the connector.

[rockhillmanor]

How many have of you have ever encountered an upside down outlet in a shore station
and had to improvise to get plugged in? :B:B

[rockhillmanor]

I've never come across high voltage. I've never come across incorrectly wired outlets. I have also not seen a bad neutral-

I love this statement when we start talking electrical protection for our RV's.
The ole "I have not seen it so it can't be there syndrome".

It is all relevant to HOW you RV.
I.E. The person who goes out once a year during a vacation, the occasional weekend warrior, snowird, full time. The MORE often you RV the more shore stations with problems you will encounter.

A full timer will stay at a whole lot more CG's in a year than the vacationer or weekend warrior. We use HUNDREDS of CG shore stations a year!

Here to tell you there are MANY that are wired wrong, missing ground wires etc. Not to mention the erratic and/or inappropriate electric coming into the CG's.

It's just a matter of time and happenstance that the other less traveled RV'ers will hit one of the same ones that we have that are wrong and can damage your RV.

I think it's a 'dis-service to the new Rv'ers who read this forum' to tell them that there are no shore stations that are wired wrong and that all electric coming into a CG is safe and that they don't need a surge protector and/or they don't need to check the pedestal before hooking up. Just saying.

[cbshoestring]

I look around this CG and I see a lot of families that spent hard earned money to enjoy quality time at the lake. I wonder how many realize the damage they MAY be doing to their investment. These people aren't interested in "solving" the world's electrical problems, they just want to have some family time in relative comfort.

For those people, and the many like them, a decent "protection" device is well worth the investment. So, when you read other posts that say it isn't needed. Because that poster has never had a problem...Refer back to that picture I posted. Voltage that LOW Can Ruin appliances.

[cbshoestring]

In this case it protected me from LOW voltage. ..but it has in the past shut down for high voltage.

Solutions aside...my original post was/is to inform others that protection is cheap insurance. I preferred the Progressive hardwired, at rough $200. Which is cheaper than most rv appliances.

My goal was to save my unit, not solve all the wiring problems a CG may have. I would say the PI unit worked as advertised.

[SoundGuy]

pianotuna wrote:
Does the PI ems solves the low voltage issue? Oh, no, it doesn't, it simply shuts down the power. Then it may as well be garbage in this particular instance.

SoundGuy wrote:
That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever read here on the forums. :S By shutting down power to the trailer when power falls outside of specified parameters it's doing exactly what it was designed to do ... AND doing exactly what the well informed consumer who bought one expects it to do. Good grief. :R

pianotuna wrote:
Since my personal comfort zone is 108 and not less that 107 volts both EMS "favorites" are from my point of view useless. The sellers "spin" them as surge protectors and, again, from my point view they don't do too well. If I had to choose one it would of course be the PI unit. But an autoformer, for me, is going to be far more useful especially since it will also buck voltage.

I've never come across high voltage. I've never come across incorrectly wired outlets. I have also not seen a bad neutral--but then the testing I do (under load) would catch that, too. Since I'm only 30 amps, the neutral may be less of an issue.

Again, incorrect statements. Yes, Progressive Industries advertises their SSP surge protector series as "surge protectors" because that's exactly what they are. However, that's not what the OP has nor what we're talking about here ... rather, the OP has a Progressive EMS which the company advertises as RV EMS with Surge Protection. Although initially confusing, what the OP was saying in his original post was that if anyone has any doubt about investing in an EMS here was an example of his own where his EMS saved the day by protecting his own rig from excessively low (and damaging) voltage.

Your choice obviously is to instead autoform incoming low voltage ... that's fine, but it doesn't invalidate the Progressive EMS approach of simply cutting off voltage to the trailer nor make it "garbage to the OP" as you claimed. It simply makes it a different approach, one that thousands who have purchased an EMS are quite happy to have. And what in the world do you mean "it doesn't do too well"? :h A Progressive EMS is designed to cut off voltage to the trailer when the low voltage threshold of 104 vac is crossed and keep it off until voltage within spec is restored ... and when it does restore voltage it does so with delay. It does exactly what it's designed to do - perfectly. :B

As for campground source supply errors, yes I've never come across high voltage but I sure come across low voltage on a regular basis. I've not yet seen a mis-wired pedestal but I sure have had several open ground situations. Just because low voltage seems to be the only issue you run into that doesn't mean others don't see any of these other potential errors or that an EMS that will detect these errors and protect the trailer's electrical system by not passing power on to it isn't a valuable tool for others - it is, confirmed by the thousands and thousands of EMS units that have been sold and are out there protecting RV electrical systems every hour of every day. :B

[cbshoestring]

For the record.

I have one of those yellow outlet testing tools that shows a good circuit, open ground, etc...it showed two yellow lights in the correct order, saying all is well. A good beginning test, nothing more. I am very thankful for my PI unit.
I even tested the pole with an old AMPPROPE I keep in the truck. Checked a neighboring site as well...he has 100 at pole, but has a fancy Booster attached that bumps him to 123 (they are a full-time--know the wiring stinks).

Thanks for all the advice on autoformers...I think I will just stick with full hook ups at newer CG's. For now, we have made it ok conserving battery and using propane. Mr Coffee doesn't seem to mind the low voltage, so I tossed an extension under the trailer, and have been using an electric griddle for cooking. Both cheap enough to replace if I have to. The trailer will remain unplugged.


We are still on the lake, a friends pontoon is running strong. We almost swamped my wife's kayak, but the beer has stayed cold.
One more night to go.

[pianotuna]

Since my personal comfort zone is 108 and not less that 107 volts both EMS "favorites" are from my point of view useless. The sellers "spin" them as surge protectors and, again, from my point view they don't do too well. If I had to choose one it would of course be the PI unit. But an autoformer, for me, is going to be far more useful especially since it will also buck voltage.

I've never come across high voltage. I've never come across incorrectly wired outlets. I have also not seen a bad neutral--but then the testing I do (under load) would catch that, too. Since I'm only 30 amps, the neutral may be less of an issue.

SoundGuy wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Does the PI ems solves the low voltage issue? Oh, no, it doesn't, it simply shuts down the power. Then it may as well be garbage in this particular instance.

That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever read here on the forums. :S By shutting down power to the trailer when power falls outside of specified parameters it's doing exactly what it was designed to do ... AND doing exactly what the well informed consumer who bought one expects it to do. Good grief. :R

[pianotuna]

Hi SMK,

Thanks for the great graph. I guess my graph may have a few more "bump ups". It may not be quite as linear, either.

[pianotuna]

Hi CA,

Thanks. Overhead for autoformers is apparently about 4%. I guess that makes the 21.3 into 20.4 (rounding down for safety).

CA Traveler wrote:
Calculation: 85V*30A=2550W/120V = 21.3A, 20A calculation similar.

I thought about a few percent transformer loss but wasn't sure of a good ballpark figure.

[time2roll]

I have Frank's when needed. This is the boost graph:

[myredracer]

2oldman wrote:

myredracer wrote:
The solution would be to use 2 or 3 autoformers in series!! .

Excellent. Just way expensive!

C'mon, if you can afford an RV surely can afford a few autoformers. Pre-owned would bring the total cost down if $$ are tight. :W

It would be a fun experiment though to try a few in series and see what happens. Brings back childhood memories like connecting electrolytic capacitors to 120 VAC and watching them explode, lol.

[CA_Traveler]

Calculation: 85V*30A=2550W/120V = 21.3A, 20A calculation similar.

I thought about a few percent transformer loss but wasn't sure of a good ballpark figure.

[SoundGuy]

pianotuna wrote:
Does the PI ems solves the low voltage issue? Oh, no, it doesn't, it simply shuts down the power. Then it may as well be garbage in this particular instance.

That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever read here on the forums. :S By shutting down power to the trailer when power falls outside of specified parameters it's doing exactly what it was designed to do ... AND doing exactly what the well informed consumer who bought one expects it to do. Good grief. :R

[rockhillmanor]

IAMICHABOD wrote:

colliehauler wrote:

Good idea of checking campground voltage.

A lot of people ruin their equipment on low voltage.

That is why I use my homemade pedestal

checker before hooking up

to my PI EMS Protected RV.

X2
X2

I check the pedestal right after pulling in BEFORE I do anything else. Even though I have a surge protector. Takes all of 2 seconds out of my life to do it!

And then I can ask for a new site if that pedestal is not up to snuff period. Not going to have the surge figure it out or adjust for it when I am paying for a FULLY FUNCTIONAL pedestal.

Those RV'ers who have never had damage to their coach due to electrical will never understand the whole concept of being pro-active.:W