87. Volt. Are you on the fence about buying surge protection

[cbshoestring]

I was told A/C could not be used, and friends who have stayed by the lake warned it was a single receptacle. Still, I paid for electric, I hoped I could at least make coffee.

87 volts when it first cycled, 94 by the time I took the pic, then rolled up my power cord

I guess we will run the fridge on propane, limit our battery use. I plugged Mr Coffee directly into the pole. Better a $20
00 coffee pot..inverters are expensive.

I guess I can re-hook to the truck for a daily "recharge".

[img][/img]

[CA_Traveler]

SoundGuy wrote:
True, and an argument that favours having the EMS wired in at the trailer rather than the campsite power post because it's also accounting for any voltage drop that may occur due to main service cable length. Here in Ontario where the runs can typically be 100' or more that's an important issue, not so much for those just running out the trailer's 25' cable to reach the post.

Wow - Haven't found that is Western Canada and I only carry 60' of 50A cord. 😞

I do carry an additional 50' of 30A cord for my sons house. Plus with 100' of 10ga 20A cord I already have a basket full of cords. 😉

[Chuck_thehammer]

test voltage at times when load will be the greatest. there load... campground load,, or branch of main line.

Breakfast, Dinner, Shower time (am,pm)

everyone using microwave, water heater, washer/dryer. hair dryer. all at the same time.

[SoundGuy]

CA Traveler wrote:
For awhile I would pre check the pedestal. But with increased awareness of the PI HW50C I rarely pre check any more.

The advantage, as pointed out earlier, is that if you do find an issue and believe it's just not going to get any better during your stay you can avoid having to drag out your main service cable. Not a big deal for sure but enough to probably convince me to continue using my dongle before even bothering to plug in.

If there is a problem the HW50C will not connect the rig power. Otherwise voltage on a unloaded pedestal or even with ceramic heaters doesn't mean much because any load management voltage checking will all occur inside the rig where I have the remote. Low voltage is more likely on 30A and especially on 20A if not managed and a pre pedestal check isn't any significant help.

True, and an argument that favours having the EMS wired in at the trailer rather than the campsite power post because it's also accounting for any voltage drop that may occur due to main service cable length. Here in Ontario where the runs can typically be 100' or more that's an important issue, not so much for those just running out the trailer's 25' cable to reach the post.

I plug in and check the voltage early in the setup process. So with any existing issue requiring another site is found early. However low voltage is one issue that often occurs later in the day and no amount of pre checking is going to uncover that problem.

Certainly voltage that sags abnormally low during the hot hours of the day is the most common issue I run into. It's one of many reasons I chose a hard wire EMS with an interior mounted monitor panel rather than the portable version that can only be viewed wherever the unit may be plugged in.

[CA_Traveler]

For awhile I would pre check the pedestal. But with increased awareness of the PI HW50C I rarely pre check any more.

If there is a problem the HW50C will not connect the rig power. Otherwise voltage on a unloaded pedestal or even with ceramic heaters doesn't mean much because any load management voltage checking will all occur inside the rig where I have the remote. Low voltage is more likely on 30A and especially on 20A if not managed and a pre pedestal check isn't any significant help.

I plug in and check the voltage early in the setup process. So with any existing issue requiring another site is found early. However low voltage is one issue that often occurs later in the day and no amount of pre checking is going to uncover that problem.

[SoundGuy]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi SoundGuy,

Let's pretend I'm going to plug in my RV at a 30 amp site.

First step I take a dogbone adapter that is 30 to 15 and plug it in.

Next step I plug a kill-a-watt meter into the dog bone 15 amp outlet. I note the voltage.

Next step I plug a polarity checker into the kill-a-watt.

Next step I unplug the polarity checker and plug in a 1500 watt heater.

Next step I turn on the heater full blast and check for voltage drop (I.E. Voltage drop under load). I note the voltage.

Finally, if everything looks good, I'll plug in my RV.

So instead of "I always check the pedestal under load before I plug in" you really meant to say "I always check the pedestal under load before I plug in the trailer". Now that makes sense ... but that sure is a lot of rigamarole to go through, especially loading the source supply with an electric heater. I merely check the pedestal with my dongle ...



... then mentally subtract 5,6, 7 volts depending on the length of main service cable I know I'll have to use to reach the trailer and knowing that by managing my power draw I can always limit my total draw to no more than this amount of voltage drop. If that puts me below 110 vac that's when I really pay more attention to my Progressive EMS's voltage / current display.

[cbshoestring]

Tuesday morning, most people have gone home & those that stayed were still in bed as I made my morning coffee. I got out the volt meter just out of curiosity. We have 105 at the pole. This CG needs an upgrade to their electrical grid.

Leaving today, so I guess we survived 3 nights on propane and battery. Does this make me an experienced off-grider?

[pianotuna]

Hi SMK,

I hope to join a similar version--but it may be check voltage and polarity, plug in autoformer, plug in RV.

[time2roll]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi SoundGuy,

Let's pretend I'm going to plug in my RV at a 30 amp site.

Here is my version:

Plug in RV. If I need air I check the PD voltage display otherwise I ignore it and finish set up.

If low I plug in the Frank's and check again after compressor is running. Then finish set up.

Anything else I just run on propane and inverter-battery-solar.

[pianotuna]

Hi rockhillmanor,

That would be annoying to say the least.

The error I saw was a pedestal with breakers. But when you flipped the breakers off, the outlets remained live.

rockhillmanor wrote:
How many have of you have ever encountered an upside down outlet in a shore station
and had to improvise to get plugged in?

[pianotuna]

Hi cbshoestring,

Unfortunate, in my experience, new campgrounds often have low voltage problems, especially around the supper hour when all the air conditioners, electric fry pans and microwaves are running.

In your shoes, I would have used the extension cord, too. It was a great work around. Resistance heating devices just don't get as hot, but I've never had one burn out or fail from low voltage.

BTW I'm not anti energy management systems. It's just that I want more from a system than what the current "add on" systems allow. PI with their lifetime warranty sure looks good.

cbshoestring wrote:
Thanks for all the advice on autoformers...I think I will just stick with full hook ups at newer CG's. For now, we have made it ok conserving battery and using propane. Mr Coffee doesn't seem to mind the low voltage, so I tossed an extension under the trailer, and have been using an electric griddle for cooking. Both cheap enough to replace if I have to. The trailer will remain unplugged.

[pianotuna]

Hi SoundGuy,

Let's pretend I'm going to plug in my RV at a 30 amp site.

First step I take a dogbone adapter that is 30 to 15 and plug it in.

Next step I plug a kill-a-watt meter into the dog bone 15 amp outlet. I note the voltage.

Next step I plug a polarity checker into the kill-a-watt.

Next step I unplug the polarity checker and plug in a 1500 watt heater.

Next step I turn on the heater full blast and check for voltage drop (I.E. Voltage drop under load). I note the voltage.

Finally, if everything looks good, I'll plug in my RV.

If there is too much voltage drop then I'll adjust the Magnum inverter/charger to try to compensate. I've got a pretty good idea what to set the amperage limit at to force the Magnum to do, not just load support, but voltage support. Once I have the autoformer I'm hoping that I won't have to use the Magnum to do that. I will, however, have to limit the input amperage based on the supply voltage so as not to cause amperage overload at the pedestal.

If it is a 15 or 20 amp outlet I do the same but don't need the dogbone adapter.

If it is a fifty amp outlet, I use my "break out box" and check both legs before I plug in. It does mean doing it all twice--but that's what keeps me in my comfort zone.

SoundGuy wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi rockhillmanor,

If you quote the whole statement it makes it clear that I always check the pedestal under load before I plug in.

Huh? :h That makes no sense ... in order to check a source supply under load you must first be plugged into that source so any load you're imposing yourself is reflected in any voltage drop created. :W

[SoundGuy]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi rockhillmanor,

If you quote the whole statement it makes it clear that I always check the pedestal under load before I plug in.

Huh? :h That makes no sense ... in order to check a source supply under load you must first be plugged into that source so any load you're imposing yourself is reflected in any voltage drop created. :W

[pianotuna]

Hi rockhillmanor,

If you quote the whole statement it makes it clear that I always check the pedestal under load before I plug in. It is lovely how folks can choose what to quote, but sometimes it allows folks to be mislead.

If you read my signature it says I full time, so I do lots of checking, just that I'm a little more careful--because I check with a load on the outlet.

The low voltage damage to electric motors is invisible and cumulative. Air conditioners don't come cheap.

Low voltage happens in almost every campsite I visit. Hence the reference to correcting that with an autoformer.

rockhillmanor wrote:

I've never come across high voltage. I've never come across incorrectly wired outlets. I have also not seen a bad neutral-

I love this statement when we start talking electrical protection for our RV's.
The ole "I have not seen it so it can't be there syndrome".

It is all relevant to HOW you RV.
I.E. The person who goes out once a year during a vacation, the occasional weekend warrior, snowird, full time. The MORE often you RV the more shore stations with problems you will encounter.

A full timer will stay at a whole lot more CG's in a year than the vacationer or weekend warrior. We use HUNDREDS of CG shore stations a year!

Here to tell you there are MANY that are wired wrong, missing ground wires etc. Not to mention the erratic and/or inappropriate electric coming into the CG's.

It's just a matter of time and happenstance that the other less traveled RV'ers will hit one of the same ones that we have that are wrong and can damage your RV.

I think it's a 'dis-service to the new Rv'ers who read this forum' to tell them that there are no shore stations that are wired wrong and that all electric coming into a CG is safe and that they don't need a surge protector and/or they don't need to check the pedestal before hooking up. Just saying.

[CA_Traveler]

I've encountered 2 cases of reverse polarity on 30A plug and 3 on a 20A plug. 3 cases of open ground or open neutral on a 20A plug. Two cases of high voltage on a 30A plug. Many cases of low voltage on 20A and 30A plugs.

One case of low voltage on 50A plug. This was a somewhat older CG with adjacent 30A and 50A sites on a very hot summer day with lots of A/Cs running. I had no way to determine if the problem was due to the CG wiring or a utility problem.

One night I had 160V on a 30A plug and the problem was a open neutral, the PI shut down, continued to display the voltage and high voltage error and I could not get the plug pulled fast enough. You may be thinking that a open neutral and 160V are impossible on a 30A plug - while not common the problem was a open neutral in the CG 120/240V distribution system.

Right now I'm at a 30A plug with good power. But the 20A GFCI plug on the pedestal which I was also going to use has a open neutral. I'll let the CG know.

But who's counting power problems? :h

[CA_Traveler]

SoundGuy wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
If I saw 85 unloaded volts I would not plug in until the situation was fixed, boost transformer or not. Why invite trouble?

Most likely the utility is delivering in spec power which is 120V +-10 percent or a low of 108V.

I'm not so sure. That's what the spec dictates but I've run into so many situations where the voltage can't even make the minimal, most often during the hot summer months when the campground is full and it's power system (and the one feeding it) is loaded to the max with everyone running A/C. IAMICHABOD makes a good point (thanks BTW :B ) - if I continue to first check power with my Prime Products line meter dongle and do find a problem it certainly saves me the hassle of even bothering to drag out the main service cable and any necessary extensions - no sense if I'm not going to use it. :R My Progressive unit is calibrated to cut off incoming power to the trailer at 104 vac but personally I really start paying attention anytime it drops below ~ 110 vac because with my own load added that voltage could easily trigger my EMS's low cutoff voltage threshold of 104 vac. Just 85 vac is a non-starter as that's a sure sign the system is already stressed well beyond it's limits ... no way, no how would I ever consider plugging in at all. :E

For clarification I was referring to the voltage where the utility wiring ends. Usually when there is a low voltage problem its the CG wiring that's at fault.

One of the great features on the PI unit is that it displays a previous error code for low voltage, etc. This means that when returning to the rig a quick check on the inside monitor is a big clue to be more alert to the CG power.