a plea for more cool weather sites for migratory travelers

[JimJohnson]

We live in Michigan's Upper Peninsula - beautiful place to be between June through October, but unless you are a winter enthusiast (or deer hunter), not the nicest RV destination between November and early May.

We have essentially permanent reservations at a Texas Hill Country RV park during those less than ideal times. The problem is GETTING to our destination in the fall and the return in the spring.

Semi-annually it is a battle to find campgrounds from roughly northern Kansas northward. We are migrating, need one-night stays, and apparently so are a lot of other RV owners. The winter migration season runs from late October through the end of year holidays (many retired RVers want to do Christmas with family before leaving).

I get it, campgrounds want to turn off the water before freeze conditions happen, and leave it off until assured freeze conditions are over. But is it necessary to fully close the entire park? Many times my most crucial need is a parking spot for the night with electric power. That last part eliminates Walmarts, casinos, etc. for overnight parking.

To northern tier private campground owners- if you live at or near your campground, I know you won't fill your campground in the migratory seasons, but could you consider a modification to your policies and website announcing limited sites and amenities. It will add a bit more revenue for little more expense. We migratory season RVers tend to be experienced and reasonable travelers.

[valhalla360]

We've left from southern Michigan in October before and didn't have much of an issue finding places to stop.

What resources are you using to find sites? Have you considered alternate routes?

That said, many northern campgrounds shut down laying off staff for the winter. If they have to keep say 3 staff at $15/hr for a month...that alone is probably around $7500-10000. At $30/n, that means they are going to have to generate 250-300 overnight visitors in that month, just to break even on staffing. I'm betting that's unlikely for a lot of parks.

Then add in potential damage from freezing (and complaints about the park that result). They also have to cover electricity (because people will be using space heaters. It's probably more hassle than it's worth.

Health department rules may require a functional bath house. Many aren't heated, so they can get in trouble being open without a bath house.

Many staff/owners are also snowbirds, so forcing them to stay into November/December may be a tough sell if they are staying in an RV and want to get south.

The further into the fall you push it, the harder it becomes to address these issues. If it is profitable, the parks will stay open (and some do) but for most, it's a money loser that comes with hassles.

Honestly, you best bet is to have the RV prepared for the conditions and get south fairly quickly if you are going to delay the departure late into the fall/winter.

[JimJohnson]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Costs campgrounds the same money to keep an open but crippled campground open just for electric hookups. Just because water, sewage and restrooms are closed doesn't mean it is cheaper to run. May even cost more in the winter since it would require additional manpower to plow open, salt, maintain campground roads and campsites.

The chance of a plow vehicle of totaling campground infrastructure goes up drastically.. Heavy snow drifts can obscure water and electric pedestals making it a minefield of things that can get damaged.

Campgrounds must also consider safety on not only their employees but you the "guest". Not every road leading to a campground may be safe to use during off season.

You have something wrong if you run out of battery overnight running a propane furnace plus having a propane fridge.

A 30K BTU RV furnace fan uses 10A at 12V, assuming 50/50 run time (30 minutes on per hr) and 10 hrs (for overnight) and that is 100 Ahr of battery capacity needed..

Two group 27 batteries in parallel (70Ahr each or 140Ahr combined) or one pair of 6V GC2 batteries wired in series for 12V at 210Ahr will easily be plenty of battery.

For the record, I used a single group27 combo marine/starting battery for yrs in a smaller 20Ft TT and never ran out of battery overnight using the furnace (13K BTU with 8A fan draw).

During the day while traveling, your battery will be recharged by your vehicle (the amount of charge may vary some due to differences in RVs and wiring to the battery).

Addition of some solar panels on your RV and/or a small portable gen can easily handle the rest of the charging when needed.

As far as propane, generally should be able to get 4-5 days of running your furnace during extreme cold temps with two 30lb cylinders assuming 24/7 operation.

When traveling out of season, it is best to be well prepared to handle most normal and emergency situations.

Plan, plan, plan.

Plan for enough battery capacity for several days, plan for some solar to fill in, plan with a small gen as a final backup plan.

Do a good job planning and there is zero need for campgrounds between your starting point and your destination.

Depending on open campgrounds out of season is a recipe for disaster.

What you say makes a lot of sense - if most of the campground's sites remain open. What I have found (but due to demand you have to book many months in advance) are campgrounds that fully close most of the sites. The remaining sites are generally close to the office and very likely only provide electric. Staffing is generally the owner(s) and MAYBE one person for part-time phone coverage. Minimal plowing, minimal maintenance - they would keep the office accessible regardless if open or closed. Showers as well as other park amenities are closed. You might be able to get water jugs filled from inside the office.

As I said, the few campgrounds that offer this do a brisk business with their limited sites. I wish more campgrounds offered this service.

[shelbyfv]

Maybe check this out for an overnight with electric. Loves RV Stop

[JimJohnson]

Old Days wrote:
I would install 500 watts of solar and 300 amp hours of battery then you will not need a electric hook up. A DC to DC charger is also nice.

Might work for larger rigs - a 21' doesn't have the roof nor storage space for the cells, electronics & battery, and all that would also consume a fair % of weight capacity.

However, here is the deal... solar is a glorified battery charger that only works during the day - the same time I am on the road and charging the battery from the tow vehicle. Also, the travel seasons for this thread have the weakest potential solar power efficiency. Not only is the sun far south, but it is usually densely clouded in the northern tier, and can be outright snowing.

[Gdetrailer]

JimJohnson wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
Many RVs with propane can stop overnight w/o electric in spite of poor RV insulation... Others might just leave the RV in FL or TX.

Propane furnaces offen draw a lot of 12v power for both the ignition system and the fan. I am leery about waking up in the middle of the night to find we have a dead house battery. Plus when on electric the refrigerator will shift from propane to that power source.

Costs campgrounds the same money to keep an open but crippled campground open just for electric hookups. Just because water, sewage and restrooms are closed doesn't mean it is cheaper to run. May even cost more in the winter since it would require additional manpower to plow open, salt, maintain campground roads and campsites.

The chance of a plow vehicle of totaling campground infrastructure goes up drastically.. Heavy snow drifts can obscure water and electric pedestals making it a minefield of things that can get damaged.

Campgrounds must also consider safety on not only their employees but you the "guest". Not every road leading to a campground may be safe to use during off season.

You have something wrong if you run out of battery overnight running a propane furnace plus having a propane fridge.

A 30K BTU RV furnace fan uses 10A at 12V, assuming 50/50 run time (30 minutes on per hr) and 10 hrs (for overnight) and that is 100 Ahr of battery capacity needed..

Two group 27 batteries in parallel (70Ahr each or 140Ahr combined) or one pair of 6V GC2 batteries wired in series for 12V at 210Ahr will easily be plenty of battery.

For the record, I used a single group27 combo marine/starting battery for yrs in a smaller 20Ft TT and never ran out of battery overnight using the furnace (13K BTU with 8A fan draw).

During the day while traveling, your battery will be recharged by your vehicle (the amount of charge may vary some due to differences in RVs and wiring to the battery).

Addition of some solar panels on your RV and/or a small portable gen can easily handle the rest of the charging when needed.

As far as propane, generally should be able to get 4-5 days of running your furnace during extreme cold temps with two 30lb cylinders assuming 24/7 operation.

When traveling out of season, it is best to be well prepared to handle most normal and emergency situations.

Plan, plan, plan.

Plan for enough battery capacity for several days, plan for some solar to fill in, plan with a small gen as a final backup plan.

Do a good job planning and there is zero need for campgrounds between your starting point and your destination.

Depending on open campgrounds out of season is a recipe for disaster.

[nickthehunter]

If it was profitable, I'm sure some savvy RV Park owner would have figured out the market and how to tap into it. I'm guessing the profit vs. hassle value just isn't there. I don't know what solutions for your problem you would consider, but a generator and truck stops as a starting point comes to mind.

[Old_Days]

I would install 500 watts of solar and 300 amp hours of battery then you will not need a electric hook up. A DC to DC charger is also nice.

[opnspaces]

I can see the concern of a dead battery in the morning with the furnace running all night. If you're concerned that it might happen you could always add a second battery even if it's just sitting on the ground connected with jumper cables.
But you then need to charge it back up while on the road to your next destination. For tat depending on the age of your tow vehicle you may need to look into a DC to DC charger.

[JimJohnson]

CA Traveler wrote:
Many RVs with propane can stop overnight w/o electric in spite of poor RV insulation... Others might just leave the RV in FL or TX.

Propane furnaces offen draw a lot of 12v power for both the ignition system and the fan. I am leery about waking up in the middle of the night to find we have a dead house battery. Plus when on electric the refrigerator will shift from propane to that power source.

Funny you should mention leaving the full-size RV trailer in the warmer climate - that is exactly what we do. However, hotels were always a pain when travelling with a dog and two cats, and have become even more difficult to find and reserve. We tow a 21' self-contained camper as a 'rolling hotel room' between the two destinations. Further, we use the camper for 'weekend trips' at both north and south locations.

[Michelle_S]

That's the reason we're leaving our Home Base in Western New York Monday and working our way South by way of Nashville this year, and we won't head North in the Spring until the end of May. We're in no hurry, so we now spend at least 2 days at each stopover instead of single nights.

[CA_Traveler]

Not my concern, however it could be a relative large expense for employees and maintenance for few RVers. But it could work out for some CGs as you suggest.

Do you have an all electric RV? Many RVs with propane can stop overnight w/o electric in spite of poor RV insulation. But personally I don't like to run anything that produces CO while I'm sleeping. And consider limited RV repair options etc. during cold seasons. Others might just leave the RV in FL or TX.