Ball Loosened, Use Loctite?

[32vld]

From time to time my son or I have to tow bar
his 1946 Chevrolet 2 ton rack truck. He uses it
for his food catering business.

Being it is old it breaks down once a year. So
when booked to do a party he has to get his truck
there so it is towed with a Chevy Suburban.

Well the truck just had to have the head R&R so the
truck had to be towed a few times. This time I bought
a new draw bar and 2" ball to get the tow bar level
when towing his old truck.

The problem is that the ball came loose after a few
tows. Last year we had to tow his truck for many weeks
because his engine was at the machine shop getting
rebuilt and we never had any problems using another
draw bar and ball.

I did not have a 1.5 wrench so I went to my neighbors
house, retired mechanic. He tightened down the nut
with a long combination wrench. Then doubled up the
wrench and gave it another tug.

Any ideas why it loosened?

He used anti seize grease when tightening the ball
to the draw bar. He said incase you ever have to take
it apart. I never did that before.

Could that of caused the ball to loosen?

Is it a good idea to clean off all the threads and
apply Loctite?

Thanks for your help.

Here is a link to my son's website so you can see his
truck:

http://www.pizzarita.org/

[wnjj]

Durb wrote:
Wow. When I used to do torque wrench training (I did a lot) I would use a torque stick to demonstrate the effect of wind up with extensions and accuracy. I would use a digital torque wrench on the input side of a torque stick that was attached to a transducer and digital meter. The torque stick would indeed wind up and limit the output and there was no impact wrench in the room. This was all documented by the peak hold functions of the equipment.

One of the first rules of good torque wrench technique is to secure your work. Chock your tires when tightening lug nuts and support your receiver if using it to tighten your hitch ball. Simple physics.

A torque stick may well limit the output torque and a truck suspension would work similarly, but ONLY if you get the rear wheels off the ground. Then and only then will you no longer be able to apply a higher torque. Until the, when the amount of torque applied reaches the setting, it will click and you're good.

All the suspension of the truck does is cause you to have to travel the wrench handle further to build the needed torque. The torque wrench simply clicks when the required torque is applied to the drive end and it doesn't care what resists the motion on the nut side of the equation.

That said, preventing movement can still a good idea if you're having to lurch the wrench as the transient torques involved will cause false readings. The same is true if you yank on a torque wrench even with a stable platform.

[Durb]

Lynnmor wrote:

Durb wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Durb wrote:
Many people torque the hitch ball by placing the ball mount into the truck receiver and applying downward force. When they do this the rear of the truck will squat. The energy used to squat the truck will be deducted from the the torque wrench's output thereby applying less torque to the hitch ball. This number is significant.

This is not correct. When the proper torque reading is met, everything will stop moving and the nut will be properly tightened.

Dream on, I guess you feel the energy used to compress the truck's springs is coming from thin air. Same concept as when using a torque stick; a lot of torque on the input side, the stick serves as a torsion spring requiring energy to twist, limited amount of torque on the output side. With your theory the input torque would always equal the output torque negating the use torque stick altogether. Compression truck spring - torsion torque stick, same concept.

Wrong, a torque stick will only work with an impact wrench, it has no ability to limit the torque of a conventional torque wrench.

Wow. When I used to do torque wrench training (I did a lot) I would use a torque stick to demonstrate the effect of wind up with extensions and accuracy. I would use a digital torque wrench on the input side of a torque stick that was attached to a transducer and digital meter. The torque stick would indeed wind up and limit the output and there was no impact wrench in the room. This was all documented by the peak hold functions of the equipment.

One of the first rules of good torque wrench technique is to secure your work. Chock your tires when tightening lug nuts and support your receiver if using it to tighten your hitch ball. Simple physics.

[mike-s]

Durb wrote:
Dream on, I guess you feel the energy used to compress the truck's springs is coming from thin air.

Uh, torque is force, not energy. But quite simply, you're wrong. Whether a torque indicating wrench is used, or someone puts a known weight at a known distance from the fastener being tightened, the torque will be correct, whether the truck is on springs or blocks.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

This is really simple. The only reason a fastener comes lose is because it was not tightened enough. You don't need a lock washer or lock tight or anything like that. Rod bolts don't have any of that stuff and they all stay tight. Why? Because of bolt stretch.

Get the stuff tight and they won't come lose. It really is that simple.

[BenK]

time2roll wrote:
WHEN INSTALLING REESE HITCH BALLS:
torque all ¾" shank balls to 160 ft. lbs., all 1" to 250 ft. lbs., and 1¼" shank balls to 450 ft. lbs.

(all are virtually the same)

Guess some folks think 16 oz of beer is.....'virtually the same'......as a liter of beer... :R

[time2roll]

WHEN INSTALLING REESE HITCH BALLS:
torque all ¾" shank balls to 160 ft. lbs., all 1" to 250 ft. lbs., and 1¼" shank balls to 450 ft. lbs.

(all are virtually the same)

[BenK]

proxim2020 wrote:
snip....

I normally place a wrench on the nut and slide

5ft pipe

over that. I then place another wrench on the ball's wrench flats and either have someone hold that one or block it to prevent the ball from turning. After that just pull tight. It's not hard to reach the high torque requirement when you take advantage of long levers. I've never had a ball loosen on me using this method.

Here are the potential laws of physics on using an extension arm without a means of measuring the amount of force that generates torque...

For discussion purposes...assume the wrench is about 12 inches long, or one foot long

Add in that five foot long handle extension and you will have a SIX foot lever arm on the wrench head, as proxim says..."It's not hard to reach the high torque requirement"

But...what is the ball's torque specification vs what is it actually torqued to???

Add that some folks turn the shank 90*. To then stand on the wrench that may have an extension on the handle

Two scenarios here

#1...pull with your arms and body on that wrench handle/extension. Think I can pull will all my might to about 150lbs for discussion purposes.

150 lbs x 6 ft = 900 ft/lbs...well over the typical 2 5/16" dia ball's typical 450 ft/lbs. Might even over tighten enough to stretch the ball's shank past plastic and into yield. That would explain it coming loose...again and again...it no longer has the tensile strength to hold that amount of torque

#2...standing on the wrench when the shank has been turned 90*.

I weigh in at about 180 lbs...

180 lbs x 6 ft = 1,080 ft/lbs if I just stand on it...if I 'jumped' on it...there will be a multiplier and for discussion purposes...say 2 times. That would mean it now has about 2,160 ft/lbs of torque on that nut/shank.

Really not that silly. I've seen it done both on automotive and in industry and had had to repair them

If needed...borrow/rent/etc a torque wrench rated for the torque your 2" ball needs

Am of the opinion that your neighbor over tightened that nut/shank and ruined it forever. It will NOT ever hold...even with a brand new "split' lock washer...sized for that nut/shank

Here are some links to sites that list tow ball sizes and their 'typical' torque requirements


Reese Ball specifiations


Draw-Tite ball specifications


eTrailer ball specifications


eTrailer Expert site for questions and answers


{edit}...forgot to touch on what the OP is towing with this 2" dia ball...take a look as his link to his son's business and the truck/kitchen/refrig/etc it holds/carries/etc...it is NOT a small pickup...but a custom flat-bed truck. On this...think a 2" dia ball is undersized...but many will use the derogatory 'Weight Police'...of which I proudly wear...as my comments are normally on the conservative side...as I have to sleep on what I've posted/said...

http://www.pizzarita.org/_nuxt/img/truck.8664c3c.png

PPS...a VERY COOL setup and if out here in my neck of the woods...would love to hire for a party/event

http://www.pizzarita.org/

[Lynnmor]

Durb wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Durb wrote:
Many people torque the hitch ball by placing the ball mount into the truck receiver and applying downward force. When they do this the rear of the truck will squat. The energy used to squat the truck will be deducted from the the torque wrench's output thereby applying less torque to the hitch ball. This number is significant.

This is not correct. When the proper torque reading is met, everything will stop moving and the nut will be properly tightened.

Dream on, I guess you feel the energy used to compress the truck's springs is coming from thin air. Same concept as when using a torque stick; a lot of torque on the input side, the stick serves as a torsion spring requiring energy to twist, limited amount of torque on the output side. With your theory the input torque would always equal the output torque negating the use torque stick altogether. Compression truck spring - torsion torque stick, same concept.

Wrong, a torque stick will only work with an impact wrench, it has no ability to limit the torque of a conventional torque wrench.

[Durb]

Lynnmor wrote:

Durb wrote:
Many people torque the hitch ball by placing the ball mount into the truck receiver and applying downward force. When they do this the rear of the truck will squat. The energy used to squat the truck will be deducted from the the torque wrench's output thereby applying less torque to the hitch ball. This number is significant.

This is not correct. When the proper torque reading is met, everything will stop moving and the nut will be properly tightened.

Dream on, I guess you feel the energy used to compress the truck's springs is coming from thin air. Same concept as when using a torque stick; a lot of torque on the input side, the stick serves as a torsion spring requiring energy to twist, limited amount of torque on the output side. With your theory the input torque would always equal the output torque negating the use torque stick altogether. Compression truck spring - torsion torque stick, same concept.

[Community Alumni]

Sometimes balls call for a good amount of torque like around 450 ft lb of torque. That can be tough to do by hand with a long or couple of wrenches. I normally place a wrench on the nut and slide 5ft pipe over that. I then place another wrench on the ball's wrench flats and either have someone hold that one or block it to prevent the ball from turning. After that just pull tight. It's not hard to reach the high torque requirement when you take advantage of long levers. I've never had a ball loosen on me using this method.

[JBarca]

old guy wrote:
tighten to 450 lbs torque at least, get a new lock washer.

Heads up in case you did not notice, he said he had a 2" ball, not a 2 5/16" ball with 1 1/4" threads, the 450 ft lb will not apply to a 2" ball.

See here,

32vld wrote:

Well the truck just had to have the head R&R so the truck had to be towed a few times. This time I bought a new draw bar and 2" ball to get the tow bar level when towing his old truck.

snip...

I did not have a 1.5 wrench so I went to my neighbors house, retired mechanic.

Since he said he had 2" ball and then 1.5" wrench that fits the nut this helps confirm it is not a 2 5/16" ball. 2" balls pending the tow rating can have anywhere between a 3/4" thread to a 1" thread and maybe a few others and 450 ft lb is too much. Point being, he has to confirm what torque he needs for the ball he has and make sure the ball is rated to tow the load he is using.

Just pointing this out in case he was trying to use it. He would strip the threads on a 2" ball doing 450 ft lb.

John

[SweetLou]

I have always used a lock washer and I use a long handle pipe wrench. In all my years of switching out balls because I was to cheap to get a separate set up, I have never had one loosen up this way

[Lynnmor]

Durb wrote:
Many people torque the hitch ball by placing the ball mount into the truck receiver and applying downward force. When they do this the rear of the truck will squat. The energy used to squat the truck will be deducted from the the torque wrench's output thereby applying less torque to the hitch ball. This number is significant.

This is not correct. When the proper torque reading is met, everything will stop moving and the nut will be properly tightened.

[old_guy]

tighten to 450 lbs torque at least, get a new lock washer.

[mnm_2]

Lubricate the threads ,snug the ball and tighten 1/2 to 2/3 ,if any doubt you can always peen or nick the threads at the nut, drilling the threads and placing a cotter pin is also a option. The ball should be greased to eliminate friction between ball and the trailer