CDC and the government may be loosening the lockdown

[agesilaus]

News

The states still control this tho but I would expect a lot of states to follow the suggestions. Not the Plague Centers tho. So maybe we will be able to RV again.

We are going out to find some cotton material that can be used to make washable masks. They recommend the stuff like tee shirts are made of. 6 or 8 layers. It will not stop viruses but will stop spray from coughs and sneezes.

[wnjj]

2012Coleman wrote:
I'll tell everyone this. My wife is on the front line in one of my areas biggest hospital systems. Currently, they are converting every available space including cafeterias and even board rooms to house beds for patients. The rate of new infections is rising - I can hear it in the conversations down the stairs from me when she is working at home. Fox news may tell you that this is over - sure go ahead and take that advice.


From my perspective the economy is doing ok. I get packages from Amazon, restaurants are doing a good business on take out and drive through. Critical jobs are being filled - grocery stores, gas stations, etc. The transportation industry (my industry) is doing great.

Go ahead and do your thing. Maybe you'll end up in a bed in some closet in a hospital basement or a converted convention center. And maybe you will need a ventilator your president would not give you. Good luck. Write a goodbye letter to those grandchildren.

Your bias is showing. Why the needless comment about a specific news source? If you Google “new york hosptialization rate”, many agencies are reporting it with Bloomberg listed first followed by NY Times and Forbes.

The problem with all of this is perspective. Everyone’s reality is a little different as is their localities’ challenges. Oregon setup a field hospital at the state fairgrounds too but there no news as to whether it was actually used. There were all kinds of news stories about preparations but the reality is we aren’t even close to full and likely aren’t going to get there. Over a week ago when I bought a take out pizza I asked the woman how it was going. I got a grim head shake. None of their lunchtime regulars can come and sales are way down. The same thing happened when I got takeout from a local non-chain restaurant. Amazon and the insurance industry are probably among the few exceptions who actually are doing better (and TP manufacturers 🙂 ).

I’m glad your wife’s employers are taking it seriously and preparing for the worse. Perhaps it won’t come to that there like it hasn’t here. Tell her thank you for what she does for others.

[agesilaus]

If we all had billions of N95 masks then yes, more of the country could be opened. But lack thereof is a part of the inept federal response.

You are referring to the previous admin who depleted the emergency stockpile during the H1N1 epidemic, but then, despite being informed 5 times by his own task force over the years, failed to restock the supplies used.

Or maybe the prominent TV personality governor from a big NE state who was told multiple times, by his own task force, to restock supplies but bought 500 respirators instead of the recommended 10,000?

Or maybe the large western coastal state's preceding governor, who actually sold off emergency supplies at auction?

One of those certainly or more likely all of them.

One problem with stocking vast numbers of this stuff is that the masks and paper gowns have a actual shelf live that means something. They get pinhole leaks. So if you had a billion masks in stock you would be landfilling a billion masks down the road. I believe the hoses and such in the respirators also go bad.

Far better would be to make sure we have the production capacity in this country's borders to produce these materials. Not US companies, 3M for example, production capacity in China or any other country. In the event of a global emergency any country will take control of production in it's own borders to supply itself first.

[2012Coleman]

I'll tell everyone this. My wife is on the front line in one of my areas biggest hospital systems. Currently, they are converting every available space including cafeterias and even board rooms to house beds for patients. The rate of new infections is rising - I can hear it in the conversations down the stairs from me when she is working at home. Fox news may tell you that this is over - sure go ahead and take that advice.


From my perspective the economy is doing ok. I get packages from Amazon, restaurants are doing a good business on take out and drive through. Critical jobs are being filled - grocery stores, gas stations, etc. The transportation industry (my industry) is doing great.

Go ahead and do your thing. Maybe you'll end up in a bed in some closet in a hospital basement or a converted convention center. And maybe you will need a ventilator your president would not give you. Good luck. Write a goodbye letter to those grandchildren.

[wnjj]

RambleOnNW wrote:
A lot of this discussion has been folks trying to give cover for an ineffective preparation and response to what should have been treated as a major invasion on the level of the WWII Battle of the Bulge. Take a look at how South Korea responded to see how it should have been done:

S. Korea CV Response

If you scale up the S. Korea level of CV results to the US population level you get the following stats(S. Korea Population 51.2 million, US: : 327 million):

S. Korea total cases: 10,423 deaths: 204
S. Korea scaled to US population size(6.38X): 66,487 deaths: 1301

US total cases: 451,491 deaths: 15,938

If we all had billions of N95 masks then yes, more of the country could be opened. But lack thereof is a part of the inept federal response.

No doubt their access to masks helped their situation. Another possible factor is:

wikipedia wrote:
Obesity has been consistently among the world's lowest - only 3% of the population were obese, which was the second lowest in the OECD, compared to over 30% in the U.S. or 23% in the UK. As a result, mortality from cardiovascular disease was the fourth lowest in the OECD.

[2012Coleman]

fj12ryder wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
News

The states still control this tho but I would expect a lot of states to follow the suggestions. Not the Plague Centers tho. So maybe we will be able to RV again.

We are going out to find some cotton material that can be used to make washable masks. They recommend the stuff like tee shirts are made of. 6 or 8 layers. It will not stop viruses but will stop spray from coughs and sneezes.

That's a shame some areas are considering loosening the rules. This virus hasn't peaked yet. Those areas that decide to go against the professionals advice are playing with lives.

Well, there are certainly some professionals who disagree with you and say that the peak has passed. Go figure, just depends on who you choose to believe.

Not really - it depends on what the person telling you wants you to believe. Mostly for their benefit, politically, or monetarily or both

[RambleOnNW]

A lot of this discussion has been folks trying to give cover for an ineffective preparation and response to what should have been treated as a major invasion on the level of the WWII Battle of the Bulge. Take a look at how South Korea responded to see how it should have been done:

S. Korea CV Response

If you scale up the S. Korea level of CV results to the US population level you get the following stats(S. Korea Population 51.2 million, US: : 327 million):

S. Korea total cases: 10,423 deaths: 204
S. Korea scaled to US population size(6.38X): 66,487 deaths: 1301

US total cases: 451,491 deaths: 15,938

If we all had billions of N95 masks then yes, more of the country could be opened. But lack thereof is a part of the inept federal response.

[kellem]

wildtoad wrote:
Every job is critical to somebody. One could say a grocery store is a critical store/service but McDonalds is not. How is a liquor store a critical job? How is a golf course a critical job. For the people who work there all of them are.

Sure if the job entails one person putting their hands on another and not for medical reasons, perhaps they should remain closed. But even then if one follows the hygiene rules it can be done safely.

Past time to take a look at how a business can remain OPEN versus shutting them down. No reason a state park has to shut down for all activities. Got a fully self contained RV, don’t need to use the public restrooms, buy junk from the store? You should be able to occupy a campsite.

How is a ABC store considered a critical occupation?
You should see me in the evening hours.....I for one am delighted.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

Well, I want to say good bye before I'm banned again.

I still want to know why this discussion has been allowed to linger for days on the General RV section, and not be moved to Around the Campfire.

It has certainly had nothing to do with RVing in General.

EDIT - That's banned by my wife, not the moderators.

[way2roll]

DallasSteve wrote:

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:

In general I find this forum a lot of "I want a T-bone, not a porterhouse' level of whining.

In general I find the people who want the stay at home orders are a bunch of cowards in bad health who are afraid of dying and they say "I don't care how much this hurts the future of my children and grandchildren, I want to live a few more months." And then they try to bash the non-stay at home people and sound morally superior.

Edit: By the way, I quit eating beef and pork about 40 years ago because I don't think it's very healthy for humans. My complaint would be "I want salmon, not trout." But since I saved my money I have salmon in my freezer, so go ahead and wreck the economy. It won't ruin my life. Just your kids' lives.

Dallas Steve,stop spouting rhetoric. Where is your evidence that the economy is ruined, let alone for your kids, or grandchildren? Plenty of evidence to support the governmental efforts to keep more masses from dying, but I have seen countless posts by you preferring death to economic impact, but where's your proof? You want to convince people you have any idea what you are spouting off about, then provide the data to support it.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

My ox has been gored. It's my family that is hurting.

Many of the same people complaining here about the hourly workers, are the same ones who a few years ago called that granddaughter stupid and useless on this forum. Because of my rant about how it is impossible for most young people from working class families to go to college and not end up with near $100,000 of moderately high interest debt.

She had plenty of scholarships and grants, but when the total numbers were added up, there was still $20,000-25,000 necessary per year to go to school. Because her mother and father (divorced) families had a combined total income of near $100,000 per year. So she was 'too rich' to get lowest interest loans and large grants.

Or that I was stupid because I had not save enough money to fund all my grandchildren's college fully.

Frankly many of the individuals I see worried about the hourly workers, are the same ones who have called for lower minimum wages, less of social safety net, etc.

I find it sad and sickening that FoxNews commentators are complaining about the 'millions' of hourly workers choosing to leave their jobs because unemployment is paying them to do nothing.

I'm not saying I want the stay at home orders. I'm saying I understand why they are necessary. And stay at home orders do not mean you cannot go to the grocery store, the hardware store, to pick-up takeout from a restaurant, etc.

------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Worship is severely impacted. I would say that many people have found options to continue their religious activities, but will miss the social interaction of Holy Week. But how I or you choose to exercise your religious faith is a personal thing. Beyond my right to comment. Except I will say your faith in the Lord will see you through this tough time.

I just finished explaining to a fellow from India on another forum that yes some churches in the US will have difficult financial problems due to the social distancing. The small First Baptist Church in my home town of less than 500 may well fail. Because they are the only church in the town with a full-time pastor.

The other three churches will survive and several small congregation Baptist churches in the area will survive. Because their pastors all work full-time jobs. The lumber companies are still buying, and harvesting timber. The few farmers are still working their fields, and harvesting early crops.

[DallasSteve]

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:

In general I find this forum a lot of "I want a T-bone, not a porterhouse' level of whining.

In general I find the people who want the stay at home orders are a bunch of cowards in bad health who are afraid of dying and they say "I don't care how much this hurts the future of my children and grandchildren, I want to live a few more months." And then they try to bash the non-stay at home people and sound morally superior.

Edit: By the way, I quit eating beef and pork about 40 years ago because I don't think it's very healthy for humans. My complaint would be "I want salmon, not trout." But since I saved my money I have salmon in my freezer, so go ahead and wreck the economy. It won't ruin my life. Just your kids' lives.

[Cummins12V98]

True overreach by some when asking people seems to be working.

[agesilaus]

But it is an inconvenience, not an emergency.

Most of the complaints I see here are "I can't go have fun"

6,500,000 new unemployed in one month is not a mere inconvenience. Colorado cops just arrested a father for playing tee ball with his 6 year old daughter and his wife in an empty park. They did turn him loose after awhile and the mayor is begging forgiveness but that is a sign of the times. Millions of bankrupt businesses aren't an inconvenience either. This sound like a case of:
"My ox hasn't been gored so it must be OK."

[wnjj]

PawPaw, good points you made there but you left off a BIG one for lots of us:
Going to church or worship services, particularly on one of the most important weeks of the year.

Our kids are doing well with with distance learning but attend a small private school and were getting good grades. I don’t know how everyone else is doing in their school. The “homework” my sister’s public school child was given was extremely dumbed down. The public schools are still working to get their feet under them a few weeks in. I am concerned about those students.

While there is plenty of personal whining on here, many are concerned about others who are not in the same position financially. I am working an engineering job from home with full pay yet I know there are plenty of others will be hurt in this. I have compassion but it’s not limited to the virus medical victims only.

I suspect these forums are a huge case of observation bias with a disproportionate number of retired, wealthier, older folks.

[wnjj]

Terryallan wrote:
We all look at the numbers, and they are scary. Which is what they are designed to be. We are only now seeing them admit that the numbers are skewed to scare you. Every one that dies is being listed as dying from the the virus if they did or not. Notice heart attack deaths have disappeared, as have victims of strokes.

Now as of last report. The Gov is actually doing a study to determine how many have in reality died from the virus, and how many have died form natural causes. once the study is finished. There will be a drastic reduction in the real death rate of the virus. and the 98% survival rate will rise to a much higher survival rate.

Take that for what you want. But just realize you are being fed fake numbers to scare you.

Consider also that a significantly large percentage of the Covid deaths are folks who are older than the average life expectancy (18 of 38 in Oregon were over 80) and may already have been dying of something else. I read the daily news reports and other than 2 unconfirmed, all had “underlying medical conditions.” Why not protect and quarantine the most vulnerable and let most of the working class get back to working?