Coincidence or Can a Brake Controller Activate Truck Brakes?

[life_is_an_open]

I have an '09 F150 with a towing package that includes the factory brake controller. I've had no issues with the truck brakes, trailer or the controller since I set everything up three years ago. The truck is driven regularly.

I recently went to pick up my trailer from winter storage. I hitched up, hit the highway and got less than two miles from the storage site when I smelled the distinct odor of burning brakes. (I had not done any heavy braking to that point.) I immediately pulled over thinking that perhaps after long winter storage, a trailer wheel bearing had seized up - or that the trailer brakes were inadvertently being applied! All the drums on the trailer were cold to the touch so I walked up to check out my truck. Its rear drums were cold, the front passenger rotor was warm and the front driver's rotor was painfully hot to the touch!

I had another two miles to my destination so I decided to wait for ten minutes or so and let things cool down. While I waited, I turned the setting down on the controller from 5 to 4. Whether that had any effect on things I don't know but I can tell you that I made it to my destination without any more burning smell present. After maneuvering and unhitching the trailer, I drove the truck back out on the highway and there was no shimmy in the steering wheel or any other behaviour that you'd expect from say a warped rotor, stuck caliper or bad wheel bearing. The brakes feel fine; the truck stops well and doesn't pull to one side.

I did not do another temperature check of the rotors because the burning smell had not resurfaced and I have booked the truck into the garage to have a full brake inspection. I'm just wondering why the brakes acted up only when towing - and seemingly only momentarily. it seems highly improbable but has anyone ever heard of a brake controller triggering the tow vehicle's brakes?!!! Or perhaps the truck has the start of a faulty rotor, caliper or wheel bearing and the added weight of the trailer exacerbated one of these faulty components. At any rate I want to rule out the brake controller or the truck's braking circuit as the culprit.

Thanks in advance for any ideas that you might have.

[Dave_H_M]

mhsmith wrote:
I agree with Gdetrailer as far as the pads most likely being stuck. At some point(you added the trailer) and the brake problem became coincidence. The pads were "stuck" and unable to release properly and wore down to where they are not a problem right now. Most likely the pads and pad hardware need to be removed, mounts cleaned of rust and I also like to put a dab of silicone under the hardware to slow down the rust build up.

Agreed. If it were mine the brake components on that wheel would get knocked apart and be closely looked at. If I could not find anything suspicious I would then "throw" a brake hose at upon reassembly.

With my luck that would not change a darn thing. :R

[mhsmith]

I agree with Gdetrailer as far as the pads most likely being stuck. At some point(you added the trailer) and the brake problem became coincidence. The pads were "stuck" and unable to release properly and wore down to where they are not a problem right now. Most likely the pads and pad hardware need to be removed, mounts cleaned of rust and I also like to put a dab of silicone under the hardware to slow down the rust build up.

[gmw_photos]

Gdetrailer wrote:


You have been leading a charmed life to find "dealers" which can actually "fix" something.......

...snip.....

It helps to be connected into the local knowledge base of who does, and does not do good work. It takes a lot of what you call "charmed" out of the process.
You had a lot of stuff wrong with that truck. The older they get, the more things go wrong, and therefore the greater likelihood of having multiple problems at the same time. Can make it challenging to diagnose.

[Gdetrailer]

gmw photos wrote:

BenK wrote:
Boils down to who the OP believes...or trusts over all of the advice so far

Agree that it 'can' be a mechanical issue with the caliper...as it could also
be an electronic issue with all of the tuff tied together inside the computer system(s)

So much of the advice is based on historically empirical data, but ask if that
includes computer systems and process controls? Even an understanding
of real time and master slave hierarchy...

That is what 'might' be the cause inside of these 'highly integrated' computer
systems

To diagnose these computer systems will require the over all knowledge, a logic
diagram (down to a level of detail to show internal logic for each module, etc)
and a GREAT scan tool (no longer the $500 buck range, but thousands to tens
of thousands of bucks range)

Stuff like with the multiplexed data stream(s) the Master CPU (yeah, gotta understand
master slave on real time metrics here) is not corrupted somehow. Can even be
noise on the power supply or once of the sensory feedback lines, to
a now higher resistance line that messes up the logic timing...and a BIG ETC


So to the OP...do you trust that your mechanic did a good diagnosis and found
nothing wrong with the mechanical brake system? If still worried about that, then
the cheapest at this point is to have 'that' wheel's brake caliper and hose
changed

Or just leave it as is and hope for the best...

Very true, Ben. Which is why I posted up above several posts that for stuff like this in the modern world, I have come to have more confidence that a good OE dealer has a better shot at troubleshooting and fixing this stuff.
Our Ford goes to the Ford shop. The Nissan goes to the Nissan shop. In our case, both of these dealers have been able to fix whatever issue the trucks went in for.

You have been leading a charmed life to find "dealers" which can actually "fix" something.

I spent $2,000 this winter at my local dealer on our '06 F250.

They did not fix the original problem AND they CAUSED additional problems. Took 6 times to the dealer, lost the use of the vehicle for 3weeks of time this winter.

I ended up FIXING IT MYSELF after searching the Internet using the SYMPTOMS I was getting.

First up was intermittent Wrench light which disabled the gas pedal. No codes found, so dealer said they found the fuel filter plugged and the fuel pump was weak. $1000 later and nearly one week of down time, drove it home and the next day once again the dreaded wrench and disable gas pedal while driving..

Back to the dealer and once again no codes.. They find the plugs are shot (80K miles) so they replace those at a princely sum of $700. Back home we go and now we are occasionally smelling RAW GAS in the cab and still getting the Wrench plus now the check engine light..

So, After an Internet search I find that the Wrench and disabled throttle is often caused by dirt build up in the throttle body..

I spent two hrs removing parts to get to the throttle body, clean it with a rag and cleaner and guess what? NO MORE WRENCH.

But I still have the raw gas smell issue.. and a check engine light..

So, back to the dealer where they find bank one cat is clogged..

$300 later and back on the road but still getting the raw fuel smell which is getting worse and a blinking check engine light once and a while.

So, I decided to pull the COPs and I found plug 7 (Bank ONE?) WAS LOOSE, I was able to tighten it by hand a half turn???

That plug was not firing and was DUMPING RAW FUEL INTO THE CAT which is a death blow to any Cat.

Now while that lessened the raw fuel smell we still where having random check engine lights along with a bit of a miss.. So I bought 8 new COPS. But before I put the COPS on I did another Internet search and found others having the SAME raw fuel smell issues.. The problem? The plugs were NOT tightened to proper torque specs.

So, I bought a 3/8" torque wrench and had at it.. Found ALL but #7 plugs GAVE a little bit before the wrench clicked..

Took it for a drive and guess what? NO MORE RAW GAS SMELL!!!!

Those boneheads at the dealer DID NOT USE A TORQUE WRENCH and if I had not found this out I would have been looking at $800 per cylinder if any of those plugs popped out...

Needless to say I could have thrown a lot of parts at our truck and been better off..

Regardless of what you and any others say, the brake controller CAN NOT make one brake on the vehicle get hot. The electronic sway control IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ONE BRAKE get hot.

I HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS SAME ROAD, I have had ONE BRAKE GET HOT and the cause WAS MECHANICAL.

This IS a known problem and can be corrected easily but you HAVE to find a mechanic which is NOT depending on "codes"..

If the OP WANTS to get it fixed right, they need to take it to ANOTHER GARAGE and get it done right. I would suggest that the OP might want to start LEARNING how to service their own brakes.

[gmw_photos]

BenK wrote:
Boils down to who the OP believes...or trusts over all of the advice so far

Agree that it 'can' be a mechanical issue with the caliper...as it could also
be an electronic issue with all of the tuff tied together inside the computer system(s)

So much of the advice is based on historically empirical data, but ask if that
includes computer systems and process controls? Even an understanding
of real time and master slave hierarchy...

That is what 'might' be the cause inside of these 'highly integrated' computer
systems

To diagnose these computer systems will require the over all knowledge, a logic
diagram (down to a level of detail to show internal logic for each module, etc)
and a GREAT scan tool (no longer the $500 buck range, but thousands to tens
of thousands of bucks range)

Stuff like with the multiplexed data stream(s) the Master CPU (yeah, gotta understand
master slave on real time metrics here) is not corrupted somehow. Can even be
noise on the power supply or once of the sensory feedback lines, to
a now higher resistance line that messes up the logic timing...and a BIG ETC


So to the OP...do you trust that your mechanic did a good diagnosis and found
nothing wrong with the mechanical brake system? If still worried about that, then
the cheapest at this point is to have 'that' wheel's brake caliper and hose
changed

Or just leave it as is and hope for the best...

Very true, Ben. Which is why I posted up above several posts that for stuff like this in the modern world, I have come to have more confidence that a good OE dealer has a better shot at troubleshooting and fixing this stuff.
Our Ford goes to the Ford shop. The Nissan goes to the Nissan shop. In our case, both of these dealers have been able to fix whatever issue the trucks went in for.

[BenK]

Boils down to who the OP believes...or trusts over all of the advice so far

Agree that it 'can' be a mechanical issue with the caliper...as it could also
be an electronic issue with all of the tuff tied together inside the computer system(s)

So much of the advice is based on historically empirical data, but ask if that
includes computer systems and process controls? Even an understanding
of real time and master slave hierarchy...

That is what 'might' be the cause inside of these 'highly integrated' computer
systems

To diagnose these computer systems will require the over all knowledge, a logic
diagram (down to a level of detail to show internal logic for each module, etc)
and a GREAT scan tool (no longer the $500 buck range, but thousands to tens
of thousands of bucks range)

Stuff like with the multiplexed data stream(s) the Master CPU (yeah, gotta understand
master slave on real time metrics here) is not corrupted somehow. Can even be
noise on the power supply or once of the sensory feedback lines, to
a now higher resistance line that messes up the logic timing...and a BIG ETC


So to the OP...do you trust that your mechanic did a good diagnosis and found
nothing wrong with the mechanical brake system? If still worried about that, then
the cheapest at this point is to have 'that' wheel's brake caliper and hose
changed

Or just leave it as is and hope for the best...

[tatest]

I don't think the integrated trailer brake controller, by itself, can activate a single brake, but the stability assist or stability control (now a Federal mandate) certainly can, that's they way these systems work.

But if you are burning up a single brake, that's not ESA or a brake controller, as those are instantaneous and intermittent. What you have is a dragging brake, a mechanical, and maintenance problem. It can be in the caliper or the hoses. Mine was on a left rear brake, and the problem was corrosion in the caliper, fixable with a superior replacement. Just as often, the problem is a collapsed brake line (hose) that prevents or delays retraction of the piston in the caliper.

Let a brake shop figure it out. Or replace the caliper and the hose.

[Lynnmor]

Again, I agree with the above post. That caliper is sticking at times for whatever reason. If it is fit too tight or rusted or whatever, it still needs attention. I had a brand new F250 that had a brake dragging, but thanks to my cheap Harbor Freight gage, I caught it in time. Ford didn't fool around and replaced everything on that axle.

[Gdetrailer]

life_is_an_open_road wrote:
Thanks to all those who provided input on this one-time (hopefully!) braking issue.

I just got the truck back from the shop where a full four wheel brake inspection was performed. The technician found that the front driver side rotor was discolored so it had indeed seen some excessive heat. That being said, it wasn’t warped, the calipers weren’t sticking or grooved and there was no rust present. The pads are 40% worn so with over half their life left it didn’t seem appropriate to change them. (The mechanic concurred.) They witnessed nothing wrong with the hydraulic lines or any of the hoses. The brakes on the other wheels were similarly given a clean bill of health. The tech took the truck for a spin and did several hard applications of the brakes. He couldn’t get the brakes to lock up and the shop’s thermal probe indicated no out of the ordinary rotor temperatures – of course all this testing is being done without the truck being hitched to my trailer.

Get another mechanic.

That rotor overheated for a REASON.

You either have THREE OTHER brakes NOT WORKING as well as they should or the driverside front brake IS sticking (or not relaxing enough).

You can not physically observe a collapsed hose from the OUTSIDE. This IS a known problem, the hose is comprised of SEVERAL LAYERS and it is well known that the INTERNAL layer can collapse without any noticeable indication on the outside.

If the hose has collapsed on the inside it will allow brake fluid to be pushed from the MC into the wheel cylinder when you brake hard enough. But when you let up on the brakes there is not enough pressure in the brake cylinders to push the fluid out and back into the MC (brakes pads need to relax and a collapsed hose does not allow for that).

You have a '09 model year, and I would be willing to bet that the mechanic did not remove the brake pads and INSPECT the ends of the pads which SLIDE inside the calipers. There is a spring on both sides of the pad inside the caliper grooves which RUSTS. This spring also tend to collect MUD and DIRT. If there is any mud, dirt, rust in that area the pads WILL seize.

Our '06 I HAD TO HAMMER the brake pads out of the calipers, they were that stuck. You can not physically inspect the grooves/springs/ ends of the pads without removing the pads..

The brake pads from the factory (and even aftermarket) FIT the grooves way too tight and it does not take much rust or dirt to prevent the pads from sliding in the calipers.

Refitting the pads by filing or grinding some material off the pads where they fit the caliper grooves to make them slide easily is a cheap and easy fix.

The signs of that one brake overheating should be cause for concern and it is not related to the trailer..

[life_is_an_open]

Thanks to all those who provided input on this one-time (hopefully!) braking issue.

I just got the truck back from the shop where a full four wheel brake inspection was performed. The technician found that the front driver side rotor was discolored so it had indeed seen some excessive heat. That being said, it wasn’t warped, the calipers weren’t sticking or grooved and there was no rust present. The pads are 40% worn so with over half their life left it didn’t seem appropriate to change them. (The mechanic concurred.) They witnessed nothing wrong with the hydraulic lines or any of the hoses. The brakes on the other wheels were similarly given a clean bill of health. The tech took the truck for a spin and did several hard applications of the brakes. He couldn’t get the brakes to lock up and the shop’s thermal probe indicated no out of the ordinary rotor temperatures – of course all this testing is being done without the truck being hitched to my trailer.

That was the end of the first day in the garage and, although I never had any warning lights come on, I asked that they keep the truck for a second day and scan for codes. I wasn’t holding out much hope that they would find any fault records and I was correct, no error codes were present. They did mention however that according to a recent TSB there can be (and I quote the bulletin) “intermittent nuisance activation of the electronic stability control (ESC) during low speed turning maneuvers while towing a trailer only”. The way the bulletin reads it seems this condition is also accompanied by a warning light and of course an error code in memory – but, as I say, no such happenings on my truck. I had them perform the associated software update (i.e. recalibrate the ABS module) anyway but I hold out little hope that this will solve the problem.

Such is the nature of intermittent problems but with the mechanical systems in check I will head to the lake next weekend feeling a little bit more at ease but of course still concerned. Although out of winter storage, the trailer is not kept at my house in the city so when I go pick the trailer up Monday evening(to de-winterize and provision it for the lake) I’ll take that opportunity to do some pretty hard brake testing - and see if the problem recurs. In his May 6th post, APT suggested I set the gain on the brake controller a bit more, so re-establishing the threshold at which the trailer brakes come on will be part of my preparations.

Hopefully the problem will not resurface. If it does I’ll be waiting by the side of the road, letting things cool down and then restarting with trailer sway control turned off to see if that has any effect. (My equalizer bars, moderate speed and common sense provide all the sway control I need lol.) If disengaged TSC still doesn’t help and the brake on that wheel locks up again then I guess it is tow truck time – not a fun way to start the May Long Weekend.

Here’s hoping for a nice break at the lake – and not a bad brake on the way to it!

[Lynnmor]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Front drivers side rotor too hot to touch.. THAT is the problem..

You have one of several possible problems.

#1 Sticking caliper

#2 Collapsed brake hose going to said caliper (internally collapsed hose will allow brake to grab but not allow fluid out fast enough when you let up on the pedal.

#3 Sticking brake pads, this one is a stinker, brake pads fit TOO tight to star with then rust in place. I had this happen more than once and never noticed any pulling to either side.. My fix is to remove the pads and file/grind the slide areas of the pads until they move easily in the caliper grooves.

I agree, fix your brake!

[the_happiestcam]

carringb wrote:
YES, it can happen. The truck's Stability Control includes trailer sway control. If the truck detects unintended yaw, it will brake individual wheels to counteract that.

Did the '09 have this? My '10 has the controller but not the stability control.

NOTE: Not arguing the point of brake controller or something else causing the truck's brakes to activate.

[Gdetrailer]

Front drivers side rotor too hot to touch.. THAT is the problem..

You have one of several possible problems.

#1 Sticking caliper

#2 Collapsed brake hose going to said caliper (internally collapsed hose will allow brake to grab but not allow fluid out fast enough when you let up on the pedal.

#3 Sticking brake pads, this one is a stinker, brake pads fit TOO tight to star with then rust in place. I had this happen more than once and never noticed any pulling to either side.. My fix is to remove the pads and file/grind the slide areas of the pads until they move easily in the caliper grooves.

[gmw_photos]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

The O.P. asked if the trailer brake controller can activate truck brakes. The correct answer is "no".

And it's a stretch to call truck stability control "trailer sway control". It will do nothing to counteract trailer sway, only attempt to solve whatever difficulty the truck is experiencing as a result of it.

Absent mechanical sway bars etc., the trailer itself will continue to sway unless its own brakes are activated to stop it, which the truck's stability system can't do.

Those are all incorrect answers when talking about Ford trailer brake control.
Our F350 Super Duty has TBC ( part of tow command package that year ) and it all integrates thru the braking system, powertrain control module, etc.

So to the OP, yes it could have happened the TBC was doing that, but you are correct to have it all checked out at your dealer. I would let the dealer do it, and not an independent shop unless you are certain the independent shop fully understands the ford system.