Dry Tongue weight vs. weight distributing hitch

[Towintoys]

So we are picking up a new Desert Fox 24 AS tow hauler tomorrow and the stated dry hitch weight is 1610 pounds. The dealership says they usually just use a 1,000 pound rated weight distributing hitch for those. I'm Leary. I have a 1,000/10,000 LB Equil-i-zer hitch currently bit I also had Camping World set aside a new 1,400/14,000 LB hitch for me. I'm wondering if the 14,000 pound hitch will be OK. With the added weigh of toys in the back behind the axles there should be less tongue weight than a dry tongue weight.....right? Also, do the air bags our Silverado 2500HD has play a factor in this?

Thoughts? 1,400/14,000 is the largest one Equil-i-zer makes.

[Slipp]

Correct, from the top of the spring bar to the bottom of the bracket. And I agree I saw that it should be tighter, but was rather challenging with the stock wrench. Great idea on the breaker bar, thank you.

[Towin_Toys]

Slipp wrote:
I agree with all of you and I appreciate you guys giving input.

We traveled from NOLA to Central Louisiana today. I pulled over at the Laplace Travel Center and removed the geny hitch and readjusted the blueox.

Instantly had a better towing experience. The rubber band effect is gone. The front to back push/pull is mostly gone. Seesaw greatly reduced. I haven't totally covered the US yet, but I think these roads are some of the worst in the country.

It was a bit windy on our drive and I was experiencing rear end sway along with some seesaw due to bad roads. 3.5 visible chain links and 40lbs in the Firestone air bags. Tongue is 21" from bottom of frame and rear of trailer about 23", rear of truck is approx 1 inch higher than front. Measurements sound okay?

We are pulling out on Wednesday for a 3 or 4 day trek to Oceanside, CA. I have intentions to replace all 4 of the stock rancho shocks with Bilstein monotubes and ideally the hellwig rear sway as well, before we leave.

I'd be happy to report back during our trip to CA.

Thank you all.

When you say 3.5 chain links visible.....from where? Is that from the top of the spring bar to the bottom of the lift bracket? If so, I think you could easily tighten it up by an additional link. If you are still using the supplied lift bracket wrench, you should get a 2’ X 1/2” drive breaker bar, an extension, and a socket. Much better than the supplied wrench.

[Slipp]

I agree with all of you and I appreciate you guys giving input.

We traveled from NOLA to Central Louisiana today. I pulled over at the Laplace Travel Center and removed the geny hitch and readjusted the blueox.

Instantly had a better towing experience. The rubber band effect is gone. The front to back push/pull is mostly gone. Seesaw greatly reduced. I haven't totally covered the US yet, but I think these roads are some of the worst in the country.

It was a bit windy on our drive and I was experiencing rear end sway along with some seesaw due to bad roads. 3.5 visible chain links and 40lbs in the Firestone air bags. Tongue is 21" from bottom of frame and rear of trailer about 23", rear of truck is approx 1 inch higher than front. Measurements sound okay?

We are pulling out on Wednesday for a 3 or 4 day trek to Oceanside, CA. I have intentions to replace all 4 of the stock rancho shocks with Bilstein monotubes and ideally the hellwig rear sway as well, before we leave.

I'd be happy to report back during our trip to CA.

Thank you all.

[73guna]

I think Towingtoys is correct.
I checked out the gen y and it's basically a floating hitch head (torsion) which is probably making the porpoising more pronounced in your case.
If you have 6-7 visible links when the blue ox twist latches are set, that's not nearly enough tension on the spring bars.

[Towin_Toys]

Slipp, after watching the genY hitch video.....I believe that is part of you problem. And you may need more tension on your Blue Ox spring bars.

[Grit_dog]

Slip, my point was that your new truck has a stiffer suspension than the old one, PLUS you're maki got even stiffer than stock. Same trailer, more capable truck = something else is differnet with the setup, is all I was trying to say.

[Towin_Toys]

Slipp wrote:
To towin toys... Loaded, with toys, what is your tongue weight? Or estimate? W/o a toy it's 2200-2300 lbs, when weighed level. Wondering how much weight it takes in the back to achieve good results.

I haven’t weighed just the tongue, but it’s a lot. The toys in the back certainly affect the tongue weight, but with the axles as far back as they are in the 24AS it’s not nearly as much as you might think. We have actually unintentionally added to the tongue weight with heavier 6V batteries, a much thicker and heavier mattress, I insulated and finished the walls and ceilings in the two forward compartments, and I dynamatted the walls in the generator compartment. Fully loaded we are right at the max GVWR of the coach.

[Slipp]

Great info. Thank you kindly. It's gotta be my setup then.

[Towin_Toys]

Slipp wrote:


I've tried varied combinations. 6-7 links of chain visible, from the end. 15 lbs of air to get the rear above the upper overloads. I've aired up to 60, but found that 30psi is about right.

Any thoughts on more or less tension?

Well, I’m towing the same trailer with a 2017 Silverado 2500 with none of the issues you describe. I have towed it with nothing in the garage area, and with a 500 pound motorcycle, and with a 2000 pound UTV. With a full tank of fresh water, I put 60#’s in the air bags. No water, 50#’s. The tension bars for the Blue Ox are tensioned two links tighter than the recommended starting point. My receiver is an aftermarket Curt commercial duty rated at 2700#’s tongue weight. I also have Bilstein mono tube gas shocks and Helwig sway bars front and rear. It tows and handles extremely well and drives great. It is extremely stable. We have been on 21 trips with it in the last year and a half. Most were on the steep and curvy highways going into the mountains but one trip was to the Oregon Coast. My guess is that your current set up just isn’t dialed in correctly yet. If my 2500 can do it, your 3500 should do it better. Spring bar tension, air pressure in the bags, ball height, and shocks are all things I would look at. And if you are using the factory hitch receiver that in itself would be suspect. I’ll be glad to help if I can.

[Slipp]

To towin toys... Loaded, with toys, what is your tongue weight? Or estimate? W/o a toy it's 2200-2300 lbs, when weighed level. Wondering how much weight it takes in the back to achieve good results.

[Slipp]

Towin Toys wrote:

Bobbo wrote:

Slipp wrote:
The bottom line is this trailer is ment to haul toys, and we do not haul a toy.

You hit the nail on the head with this sentence. That trailer is intended to have a significant weight in the back to counter all of that tongue weight. Unless you get the tongue weight down to 12% to 15% of the trailer weight, nothing else will work.

How much air pressure are you keeping in the air bags while towing? Also, how many full links of chain visible at the end of the Blue Ox tow bars when hooked up and tensioned?

I've tried varied combinations. 6-7 links of chain visible, from the end. 15 lbs of air to get the rear above the upper overloads. I've aired up to 60, but found that 30psi is about right.

Any thoughts on more or less tension?

[Slipp]

Grit dog wrote:
To Slipp, look at what is different between the 2 trucks and start there. Once you realize it's not the truck, but how you have it setup, it will tow better. Idk why you'd even need all those suspension enhancements if you're pulling with a wdh. You've created a spring board out of the hitch connection with all the Etrailer.com accessories you've got going on there.

I've thrown accessories at the truck to fix the spring board. The accessories haven't created a problem, but they have helped level my vehicle and give a smoother ride.

I do think the geny hitch has added a rubber band feel with a front to back motion. We are in New Orleans, and heading out on Sunday. I'm going to remove the geny, to confirm what I'm feeling.

The difference in the trucks, that matters in this case, us the suspension. Completely different use of technology being applied. In a nut shell the GMC is smoother, but less stable, the ram was bumpy but had 0 sway and my front wheels stayed firmly planted.

Trailer is dialed in like it needs to be. GMC doesn't recommend more than 1300lbs tongue weight. I think that rating is more for handling rather than what the hitch can hold before failure.

[Towin_Toys]

Bobbo wrote:

Slipp wrote:
The bottom line is this trailer is ment to haul toys, and we do not haul a toy.

You hit the nail on the head with this sentence. That trailer is intended to have a significant weight in the back to counter all of that tongue weight. Unless you get the tongue weight down to 12% to 15% of the trailer weight, nothing else will work.

How much air pressure are you keeping in the air bags while towing? Also, how many full links of chain visible at the end of the Blue Ox tow bars when hooked up and tensioned?

[Grit_dog]

To Slipp, look at what is different between the 2 trucks and start there. Once you realize it's not the truck, but how you have it setup, it will tow better. Idk why you'd even need all those suspension enhancements if you're pulling with a wdh. You've created a spring board out of the hitch connection with all the Etrailer.com accessories you've got going on there.