Engine temperature while towing

[tdouty]

I guess I'm old school, but I had always been taught that if the temperature gauge moves up towards hot, you pull off and let it cool down. I'm pulling a 32' Keystone Cougar X-Lite that is 6700 lbs empty so around 7500 lbs loaded in Pa. I had been pulling with a 98 Dodge Ram quad cab with a 318 and 3.73 gears and it was a all it could do. The maximum towing on it was 7800 lbs. I just got a 2006 Sierra 1500HD with the 6.0 engine in it and 3.73 gears. Pulling up a mountain at 65-70 mph in central Pa about two weeks ago, I noticed that the temperature gauge started at normal operating at just under the 200 degree mark; 260 is red hot on the gauge. The temperature went up to around 225 -230 and I didn't expect it to move much. I'm a bit worried because later this year we will be towing up the I76 turnpike towards Pittsburgh where the tunnel is. With my old truck I had to pull over and let it cool about 2/3 of the way up the hill (or did I?). I got the 1500HD to make sure I'd be able to tow the camper where I wanted to tow it, but now I'm afraid it might get too hot going up the mountain especially if it's hot outside.

I have a buddy who has a 2002 Silverado 2500HD with a 496 big block (8 litre) in it (only 40,000 miles and immaculate yet). He tows a 8400 lb camper that is about 9500 lbs loaded. He said that even with that truck it heats up on mountains, but has never once over-heated. He says it will go all the way up to red on big mountains, but doesn't ever overheat so he was saying not to worry about it because it can handle it.

I'm a bit worried about letting the gauge go that high to see if it can do it and not overheat. What are the experiences of those here? Is it normal to expect the gauge to go up near red and should I not worry about it? My tendency is to let it get up to maybe 240 and then pull off and let it cool down. I know turning off A/C and even turning on the heater can help so I'll turn off the A/C as a first step. Thoughts?

[Tystevens]

Hybridhunter wrote:
Side note - It would be nice to see the 60's trans temp chart disappear from the internet forever. Temperature operating ranges have changed over the years!

X3!

[Skidus1]

Towing my trailer I hit around 240 up a steep grade and the fan kicks in, the tranny temps are max 183 this is using a Edge Race plugged into the ob2 port so more accurate then guages with an 07 duramax. Egt's are around 1300.

[Hybridhunter]

smkettner wrote:
This goes back to 2002 on Ford transmission temperature gauge.

An Editorial by dieselmann

Aha, very close to what the modern F150 does, I believe the gauge now goes red at a lower pan temp, the torque converter temp might be similar to what dieselman indicated. He is incorrect as to the effects on the new low viscosity fluid.

[time2roll]

This goes back to 2002 on Ford transmission temperature gauge.

An Editorial by dieselmann

[Hybridhunter]

RFOneWatt wrote:

Campfire Time wrote:
Some temp gauges are just pretty front ends that replace the old dummy lights. They have 3 settings. Cold, just right, or over heating.

The gauges in my 2007 Expedition 5.4L were as you describe.

I thought I would be fine if I watched my temp gauges when in the mountains and simply slow down when they started to climb.

NOPE. as soon as the gauge moved at all the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree (ALL gauges pegged, all lights on) and computer reading "VEHICLE OVERHEATING - PULL OVER"

No wiggle room. Not knowing how much time I had to pull over was also a bit stressful with a couple big trucks behind me, somewheres around Yellowstone.

As soon as I got back home to Michigan I traded the Expy in for a diesel TV, bought a $9.95 OBD II reader and the Torque OBD App for my phone.

Now I don't worry. (about that haha)

I loved that Expy though.

-RF

Any of the post 2009 F150's and any 250/350's going back to the mid 2000's do increment up after 225F. Both the engine temp and transmission temp. I can't speculate as to if or why older ones don't seem to. (Dead up and down trans temp is 230F, one notch over is around 240F, adjacent to the red is 250's, and overheat and cluster warning is around 257 IIRC, normal gauge position is just shy of half which emcompases 190 - 229, "normal" temp is 200-212ish). Feel free to correct those numbers if I got it wrong.

The voltage readout is basically an idiot light though, I'm fairly certain it is binary in operation. But normal on the new efficient electrical system varies from 12.5v to 14v, so a accurate gauge would swing constantly, and not as expected.

[gmw_photos]

BenK wrote:

...snip...

Many say today's vehicle are: "good for it"...yes, but I like to keep
below their maximum's for longevity and the biggie for me: Power mode

Also like to keep it just above the set point when it goes from open
loop control to closed loop control. Hot enough to pass smog in Calif
and low enough to have plenty of margin for power mode, which will
heat it up quickly if left in WOT for long.....snip....

Yep, I agree with Ben on this. For me, the key word in his statement there is "longevity". I keep my vehicles a long time. I want them to be reliable throughout their usable life. So for me, I prefer to see water temps for the most part under 200F. Anything over 220 is cause for alarm in my book. In fact 215 starts to make me watch it closely and begin changes in the drive pattern to reduce stress and heat.
Others may wanna let 'em run hot....the new VM Motori 3.0TD in the Ram truck is apparently a hot runner. Time will tell if this is a good strategy or not.
I'm not gonna be one spending "my" dollars to do the beta testing on that deal.

[RFOneWatt]

Campfire Time wrote:
Some temp gauges are just pretty front ends that replace the old dummy lights. They have 3 settings. Cold, just right, or over heating.

The gauges in my 2007 Expedition 5.4L were as you describe.

I thought I would be fine if I watched my temp gauges when in the mountains and simply slow down when they started to climb.

NOPE. as soon as the gauge moved at all the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree (ALL gauges pegged, all lights on) and computer reading "VEHICLE OVERHEATING - PULL OVER"

No wiggle room. Not knowing how much time I had to pull over was also a bit stressful with a couple big trucks behind me, somewheres around Yellowstone.

As soon as I got back home to Michigan I traded the Expy in for a diesel TV, bought a $9.95 OBD II reader and the Torque OBD App for my phone.

Now I don't worry. (about that haha)

I loved that Expy though.

-RF

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Side note - It would be nice to see the 60's trans temp chart disappear from the internet forever. Temperature operating ranges have changed over the years!

X1000000000. It should be banned forever unless you're running a T400 or a C6 with 1958 ATF in it.

[Hybridhunter]

Ford gauges move, they just do so in a non-linear fashion, they are heavily dampened electronically. Both the engine and trans temp have what is considered a "normal" operating range, inside this range, the gauges do not budge. Outside of that they both move incrementally. (I think leaving the distinction of what is normal is best left to those that built it, don't you?) My last 2 GM's HD's (and come to think of it, both of my previous Dodges) had oil pressure, temp, and volts gauges that waved around all day while I drove, I'm not sure that added any necessary info to my brain. Neither did the fuel gauge that stayed above half for 3/4 of the usable fuel range, or the inaccurate mileage readout that was off by 10% (GM)

Ford is obsessive about controlling operating temps, more so than other manufacturers have been in the past.

I have experienced both first hand, and it can be verified on other forums from people who use scangauges. (I previously ran a Scangauge II with x gauges, now I run and OBD WIFI Iphone dongle)

Side note - It would be nice to see the 60's trans temp chart disappear from the internet forever. Temperature operating ranges have changed over the years!

[ib516]

This is a pic of the temp gauge in my 2007 Cummins powered Ram 3500 when pulling my 37' 5er up a mountain grade in Utah in 100*F temps. I kept on going, but I kept an eye on the gauge.

Heating up when working hard is normal - well, except in some vehicles that have "fake" temperature gauges that never move (cough cough *Ford*).

[BenK]

Haven't read the responses and just some techie on why and how...

Heat, especially higher temps, age things. Every thing. Shortens their
life span.

It takes energy to move all that weight. More as you go faster. Even
more when you go up inclines. The faster and steeper it is, the more
energy it will take. Factored by the weight...more requires more energy

ICE's are only, at best, 40% efficient (2 cycle diesel). Gassers are
even more in-efficient. That only a percentage of the heat generated
by the cylinder combustion is put to the pavement. The rest is rejected
via the various cooling systems

Then the losses. Pumping losses in the engine. The hydraulic coupling
losses of the automatic. Less when it is locked up, but there are
losses in the gearing. Ditto the diff and transfer case (if you have one)

Both the ICE and automatic has their own computer these days. Both
have safety set points where they will NOT allow power mode...to then
drop down into lesser and lesser till it reaches limp mode

Those safeties mainly use component/system temperature levels as their
set points as to when it will phase back power




Heat rejection is via the main coolant radiator, which has in most
cases (or with the tow package) has engine oil radiator inside that
main radiator. Ditto ATF radiator inside the main radiator and with
the tow package...adds another external ATF radiator

Many say today's vehicle are: "good for it"...yes, but I like to keep
below their maximum's for longevity and the biggie for me: Power mode

Also like to keep it just above the set point when it goes from open
loop control to closed loop control. Hot enough to pass smog in Calif
and low enough to have plenty of margin for power mode, which will
heat it up quickly if left in WOT for long



So to answer the OP's question...yes your thoughts good. Pulling
over and turning off heat generating accessories. Even turn on the
heater (that is another radiator).

[tdouty]

Awesome! Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to remember to update this post later this summer after we pull some bigger mountains on the PA turnpike near Somerset heading to Pittsburgh.

[lawrosa]

I put in the biggest they had at the auto store. 20,000 GVW rating tubular unit.

Like this..

http://www.amazon.com/Flex-lite-4120-Translife-Transmission/dp/B00029J3WK




Also as far as trans temps, once you get near 200f varnishes start forming IMO. I only use synthetic in the trans too...






As far as the engine temps thats way too high IMO.. Maybe you need to check the coolant %??

I would be looking into an oil cooler possibly . ( Synthetic oil too.)

Its your truck though and its just opinion.

I personally run as cool as I can. Heat kills...I can tow all day and not reach over 180f.

[Tystevens]

Tdouty, your truck is fine.

200* for trans temps is no problem, especially if that is as high as it gets. 230* on the water is fine, too, especially if it stops when it gets there. A lot of the old school guys will have concern about these numbers, but they are well within the acceptable operating range for your truck.