Ev charging in camps expectation of availability, cost

[SDcampowneroper]

Evs in our region are primarily the few commuters or as tows behind MHs to use as tour the area vehicles. Commuters recharge at home maybe at work, though I do not know of any companies here that offer that service yet,
What I want you to post is as you travel with an EV towed, perhaps someday as a tow, how do you expect camp power supplies to be equal to charging your vehicle. An argument that EVs popularity growth will be met equally by growth in power generation and distribution has merit in metropolitan areas with steady power use curves. where the increase is anticipated. Its not so well defined in areas with regional high power use times,

Camps built yesterday did not -could not - put in the infrastructure to meet such massive electrical loads that serving the rvs and EV recharging. Where once 4/0 al cabling served by a 200a main to x # 50a rv sites, will quickly by overloaded with only a couple of recharging vehicles.
How is an existing camp to meet that load, pass the costs on?
How is a new camp to design for that potentiality, Pass the costs on?


I do not have a dog in this fight, we sold our camp last year and retired.

[dedmiston]

This feels like a good time to set the parking brake. This thread had coasted to a stop and now it literally began repeating itself.

Not interested.

Does anyone remember Dieter's Dance Party from 1990's SNL?



Here's a link to the entire six-minute bit.

It's less tiresome than taking another lap around this discussion.

[Grit_dog]

Reisender wrote:


You are misinformed.

- Commercial level 2 charge units are under 1000 bucks. As per the picture a few posts back. They are not trickle chargers. Those are level 1 units.

- More expensive level 2 units can be equipped with network features, pay features, power sharing etc. They can be north of 3000 dollars before install. Probably not necessary in a campground.

- Level 3 fast charge units (those 50 thousand dollar units you refer to) are not installed in campground/hotel/restaurant situations. Nor would they be needed.

Misinformed?
You're not a contractor, nor do you apparently want to see through your Telsa colored glasses that this ain't free like wishes and rainbows.
Show me a quote to do this work, including a modest or expected amount of upgrade to the local service and I'll show you a quote for WAAAAY more than $1000 a piece for a few isolated units.

Heck, my buddy the plumber gets $1800 min for a 50gal hot water heater removal and install....value line water heater and easy access. Just goes up from there.
I happen to be a General Contractor in the heavy civil industry. You can't buy anything for $1000.
But that's the difference, some of us understand what goes into this and others think it falls out of the sky into their laps...

[Reisender]

Timmo! wrote:
Funny how people that never owned a business, never had to make payroll, never had to fire long time employees...think the best business model is the "field of dreams" version.

Build it and customers will come.

Yes home models of EV chargers are cheap and yes the more durable commercial models are expensive, and if you want to charge in a few hours (instead of an overnight trickle) then you will need the more expensive charger that are closer to $50k installed (requiring half a million bucks of revenue).

To install a charging unit in a home is easy. Install 240v sub panel (from existing panel) screw the unit to the wall, and plug it in.

To install a charging unit in the boonies, requires running power line from where? From way over there.

And then we have power generation for places in the boonies. Aren't many of those fueled by the evil fossil fuels? Natural gas, diesel, coal, etc?

Offered the choice of using energy derived from those evil bird killers (wind turbines) or energy derived from the evil fossil fuels--I'm with the tried and proven camp, that does not require taxpayer subsidies to thrive.

Now, we all have our own personal experiences and ideals--that is called diversity. And from our unique personal experiences, we have developed this thing called "opinions". And like personal preferences, opinions change over time.

Only fools think just their opinion are "righteous" and that makes them "good people", while those with different opinions are viewed as "bad people" with "dumb ideas".

You are misinformed.

- Commercial level 2 charge units are under 1000 bucks. As per the picture a few posts back. They are not trickle chargers. Trickle chargers are level 1 units.

- More expensive level 2 units can be equipped with network features, pay features, power sharing etc. They can be north of 3000 dollars before install. Probably not necessary in a campground.

- Level 3 fast charge units (those 50 thousand dollar units you refer to) are not installed in campground/hotel/restaurant situations. Nor would they be needed.

[time2roll]

I seem to recall some camps charge extra if you want to run the air conditioner. Somehow they manage that policy. EV should be no more difficult.

[Timmo_]

Funny how people that never owned a business, never had to make payroll, never had to fire long time employees...think the best business model is the "field of dreams" version.

Build it and customers will come.

Yes home models of EV chargers are cheap and yes the more durable commercial models are expensive, and if you want to charge in a few hours (instead of an overnight trickle) then you will need the more expensive charger that are closer to $50k installed (requiring half a million bucks of revenue).

To install a charging unit in a home is easy. Install 240v sub panel (from existing panel) screw the unit to the wall, and plug it in.

To install a charging unit in the boonies, requires running power line from where? From way over there.

And then we have power generation for places in the boonies. Aren't many of those fueled by the evil fossil fuels? Natural gas, diesel, coal, etc?

Offered the choice of using energy derived from those evil bird killers (wind turbines) or energy derived from the evil fossil fuels--I'm with the tried and proven camp, that does not require taxpayer subsidies to thrive.

Now, we all have our own personal experiences and ideals--that is called diversity. And from our unique personal experiences, we have developed this thing called "opinions". And like personal preferences, opinions change over time.

Only fools think just their opinion are "righteous" and that makes them "good people", while those with different opinions are viewed as "bad people" with "dumb ideas".

[dedmiston]

Reisender wrote:

dedmiston wrote:
Didn't you post the same thing a bunch of pages ago?

Yep.

My guess is it will probably be posted again at some point.

Yeah. Thought so.

Please don't do that. Make your first post count, but don't repeat it.

[SDcampowneroper]

O P here, some great info, ideas. Some skewed more by opinion than fact. We all defend our decisions to buy this or that, or into an ideology based on some experience in our lives. I like chevy California wines are very good, overrated Get my drift?
Though I am retired, I have many camp owner friends and a little sway in the national industry and in our state legislature through my many years participating in them .
To argue that EVs are not a part of the future is poppycock, the fact is EVs are selling and being used at a growth rate in the RV motorhome ownership crowd beyond any other. These EVs will need recharging , mostly at night after the day trip to sightsee in touristy, and short season places I know well.
Camps will have to contend with EVs as a part of business, we had to with a growing # in our last years owning the camp, where we could, let them charge on a vacant site, then actually by meter read the KW hrs used. This was not satisfactory to the EV owner, as they had rented a fhu with utility included, they expected to use as much as the could get, included in the daily rate. They would plug the coach into the 30, car into 50. Our panels got oveloaded as they were by NEC code designed to feed peak loads. ( 200a@ 240 v = 48000w) to the sites connected. Connecting both coach and car could put load on that pedestal to 15600watts. I'm no sparky or engineer, obviously the camp distribution grid will fail with only a couple recharging units sucking juice from if.
Camps everywhere are looking to the future and how they can meet this growth demand with the caveat, of it being a cost neutral, cost recovery over time over expense. Some may zealously court EV owners like hotels and casinos, with their easy emplacement and available power, recover costs with structured fees.
To that end, EV owners recharging would have to pay a premium to the property in some way.
In a business model charges and fees are ideally suited to use of those facilities Where the many other factors of a camp can be rationalized to an average daily site fee, with many charging for high occupancy, or the practice we detest of raising fee schedules on occupancy.
Private camps can and will manage a way to meet your wishes and needs, They build it on the premise you will come. You must be prepared to pay not just for the 'refill' also for the infrastructure. Upcharge for site fees that have EV charging stations until law permits electric vehicle charging upcharge on them is coming your way

[Reisender]

dedmiston wrote:

Reisender wrote:
If someone wants to add a couple commercial EVSE's with padlock access the first thing I would do is contact Tesla. They will probably give you a couple, one Tesla and one non Tesla. Probably 48 amp units needing a 60 amp service. If not just go to clippercreek and buy them. 1800 bucks will get you a couple ruggedized units. Then you would need two 60 amp circuits. This is what hotels, restaurants and other small businesses do. This is wat you'll get.

Just an idea.

Cheers.

Didn't you post the same thing a bunch of pages ago?

Yep.

My guess is it will probably be posted again at some point.

[dedmiston]

Reisender wrote:
If someone wants to add a couple commercial EVSE's with padlock access the first thing I would do is contact Tesla. They will probably give you a couple, one Tesla and one non Tesla. Probably 48 amp units needing a 60 amp service. If not just go to clippercreek and buy them. 1800 bucks will get you a couple ruggedized units. Then you would need two 60 amp circuits. This is what hotels, restaurants and other small businesses do. This is wat you'll get.

Just an idea.

Cheers.

Didn't you post the same thing a bunch of pages ago?

[Reisender]

If someone wants to add a couple commercial EVSE's with padlock access the first thing I would do is contact Tesla. They will probably give you a couple, one Tesla and one non Tesla. Probably 48 amp units needing a 60 amp service. If not just go to clippercreek and buy them. 1800 bucks will get you a couple ruggedized units. Then you would need two 60 amp circuits. This is what hotels, restaurants and other small businesses do. This is wat you'll get.

Just an idea.

Cheers.

[time2roll]

You can get a basic home connector for $500. Then just have your electrician pull wire at $500+

Commercial unit that tracks billing and restricts access with a key card is a bit more. Bollard mount alone can be $2,000+. Then you need internet or cellular connection for the billing along with a service agreement. Depending on location and conditions can easily top $10,000 each for the initial set up. I see the actual bills around here. Don't forget ADA accessible if required in your area.

Sometimes I think the home unit and give away the electric is lower cost.

[pianotuna]

Timmo! wrote:
Oops, forgot to appease those "self appointed", official fact checkers.

Costs of commercial level 2 EV charger--
https://www.propertymanagerinsider.com/how-much-do-ev-charging-stations-cost/

Campground profit margin--
https://www.acacamps.org/resource-library/camping-magazine/dollar-cents-operating-camp

Phew!

Now that you have attempted to insult folks who are trying to help others, I see no reason why a Bev outlet should cost more than a 50 amp pedestal.

Cost to Install an RV Electric Hookup — Around $1,200 for a professional install.

source https://rvshare.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-rv-hookups/

So your very negative post is out on the costs by a factor of 10, but I'll be generous and say it cost 2400. So your calculations are only 5 times too large.

Isn't it fun to play with math?

[time2roll]

Assuming the campground is at least semi-thriving, installing a couple L2 charging stations will not make or break the business. The extra electricity cost will not bury the business. At the same time there is no need to move forward on this until there is an issue or specific demand.

I have the same issues in my rental business. No demand, no action.

[wapiticountry]

Chum lee wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
As a business owner, (non clock puncher/salary earner) for most of my adult life, sometimes the cost of creating the appearance of doing well in spite of not doing well is worth the price. (of course, you cannot do this all the time long term, . . search Ponzi schemes) I don't decide for anyone else.

For example, if you own an RV Park (which I don't) with a 50% vacancy rate, IMO, you have to do something to boost sales because you are losing money on ALL the vacant spaces which cost you a fixed amount per space per night. If you let someone with an RV&EV stay there and even though they use an excess amount (beyond your estimated amount) of electricity, it's still better than getting nothing at all from a vacant space. Tell them they have to stay three nights for the given rate. This is casino thinking. In retail, it's called a loss leader.

Of course, . . . if you have a 10% or less vacancy rate, ALL THE TIME, none of this applies and you SHOULD charge a premium, especially for SPECIAL people. No freebies.

Chum lee

That Casino is selling something other than the loss leader item. (Really? Ever heard of a jackpot or an all you can eat buffet?) The RV park is usually a one trick pony, that being site rental. When you start discounting to fill sites you often lose revenue since those people that would’ve paid full price are now only paying the discounted rate. Plus there is nothing that guarantees a single additional site rental if they did offer a lower rate or reduced electrical charges etc.

IMO, the casino, as a business model, is not that different from an RV park. They sell space (rooms), services (hookups) and entertainment (neighbors). As I previously said, if you have a minimal vacancy rate, you have no need to offer freebies (discounts). You seem to fail in grasping that concept. It's when you DON'T, . . that's the problem. VOLUME! Have you ever heard people in the entertainment industry say, "There's no bad publicity!" Why? Because it generates buzz. (volume) In our current social media controlled society, people talk to each other all the time. IMO, when you gracefully accommodate potential good customers, they say nice things about you to others. (which further generates buzz/business) When you don't, . . . . well, . . . just look at this website. I'm not selling anything here. Initially, I hated most of my instructors in the school of "hard knocks", but eventually, . . . . I graduated, and . . . I'm still learning.

We could go on and on comparing similarities/differences. Just do what works for you.

Chum lee

You are kidding, aren't you? Casinos and RV parks are similar?? Maybe you have never been to a casino, but they have one true profit center, you know, Gambling.
They are a great example of one thing, however, and that is providing discounted "loss leaders" to generate business isn't always good business. You are right, they used to offer discounted rooms, cheap buffets, $1.99 steak dinners etc. to attract people into their buildings hoping they would place bets. What they found out was there was a great deal of positive word of mouth about those rooms and meals and people flocked to them. What those people didn't do, however, was gamble. So now the rooms aren't discounted to $20.00 a night, you pay a hefty "resort fee" on top of the room rate, the buffets are $30.00+ and you don't get Secretariat on a plate for $1.99. Unless you prove to be a high rolling "whale" bargains in Las Vegas are few and far between.
As for word of mouth advertising in the RV Park business, if that word of mouth is "XYZ Park is cheap" all that is going to get you is people looking for cheap. That is not the customer I am looking for. I prefer one who knows they are going to pay a premium price for a premium park in a premium location. That is who pays the bills, not discount Debbie or cheapo Charlie.