F150 Towing Sway

[karlrmac]

Hello,

We recently purchased a 33' (overall) TT and tow it behind our 2012 F150. It tows and doesn't jump over 3k RPM going uphill around 55MPH, but the sway is horrible . I have a Husky setup that was installed by the dealer at purchase which includes the friction sway bar. The instructions from the dealer were to tighten it down until snug and go. Is that correct? There is alot sway and we have to stay below 60 everywhere, even without a vehicle passing.

Also, I was using the 3rd link for the weight distribution bar but had a bad bounce. I went to the 4th link from the end and pretty much removed the bounce.

Any help with the sway issue would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Karl

[karlrmac]

Thanks for the information.

Task list:
I have ordered a left handed sway bar.
I am going to lower the hitch ball so that the TT leans down more.
Also need to do measurements in relation to lowering the ball to ensure WD is setup correctly.

Question, when you say 'bottom them out', are you saying you turn that handle until it can't turn any more by hand, or are you saying to get that handle to turn that bolt where it it sticking all the way out and the plate the handle is on, is all the way down (which i think would require some mechanical force).

jerem0621 wrote:
First, I'm not going to preach to you about upgrading your truck. I pulled 31 ft TT that weighed 7000 lbs with an 8,000 lb tow rated 1997 F150... I used a regular WD hitch and two sway controls. You can make a decision about upgrading trucks on your own.

The set up looks pretty good from a visual pic. What I would like to see is more hitch head tilt away from the truck. What we are trying to do is get the front axle to return to the unloaded front axle weight. It looks to me that you may be unloading the front axle too much. Use a tape measure and measure your front wheel well heights with the truck unloaded. Use the WD hitch to restore this measurement to within 1/2 inch....the closer the better. Add more angle to the hitch head and go from there.

Now, we need to talk about sway....what many people call "sway" is the natural suck and pull motion of passing vehicles and wind. This is not sway...this is wiggle...that is, you can feel the trailer wiggling behind you.

Sway is side to side oscillation (tail wagging the dog, trying to hold a toy snake by the tail) this is sway and it's deadly.

Wiggle is natural but can be removed by sway controls....that's really a bad name for them, they are dampeners and work to take the wiggle away, with two sway controls most if not all of the wiggle will be gone. There is a tension bolt on the sway bars, after you get the WD dialed in and the second bar on we can adjust this bolt in 1/4 turns until the optimum dampening is achieved.

Remember the on off handle on the sway bars are just that. On off bars. I would bottom them out on mine and then back the handle off about 1/4 turn to be parallel with the frame.

Oh, you don't have to pay $100.00 for a second bar anyway. You can buy them on Amazon for around $40.00 or used on craigslist for even cheaper from time to time.

On edit I agree with BenK on lowering the hitch head one more hole. He posted while I was typing my last reply. This will achieve a nose down attitude which is good for tongue weight and will help the handling.

You can do this when you are adjusting the tilt of the hitch head.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[essness]

I tow 9700 (and high change) lbs, lets call it 9800 lbs with a Ram 1500. The dealer set up the hitch and I suffered from a little sway that made me uncomfortable. I dropped the hitch head 1" and changed the angle slightly and it tows like a champ now even if I'm being passed by a large truck.
my tounge weight went from 917lbs to 1048lbs. I use a Reese pro series with 1400 lb bars, I have 2 sway bars, and airlift bags on the truck. My truck is properly equiped to tow 10,400 from the factory.
In the first pic it looks to me like you are a little nose high on the trailer.
So, proper set up is the key.

[jerem0621]

First, I'm not going to preach to you about upgrading your truck. I pulled 31 ft TT that weighed 7000 lbs with an 8,000 lb tow rated 1997 F150... I used a regular WD hitch and two sway controls. You can make a decision about upgrading trucks on your own.

The set up looks pretty good from a visual pic. What I would like to see is more hitch head tilt away from the truck. What we are trying to do is get the front axle to return to the unloaded front axle weight. It looks to me that you may be unloading the front axle too much. Use a tape measure and measure your front wheel well heights with the truck unloaded. Use the WD hitch to restore this measurement to within 1/2 inch....the closer the better. Add more angle to the hitch head and go from there.

Now, we need to talk about sway....what many people call "sway" is the natural suck and pull motion of passing vehicles and wind. This is not sway...this is wiggle...that is, you can feel the trailer wiggling behind you.

Sway is side to side oscillation (tail wagging the dog, trying to hold a toy snake by the tail) this is sway and it's deadly.

Wiggle is natural but can be removed by sway controls....that's really a bad name for them, they are dampeners and work to take the wiggle away, with two sway controls most if not all of the wiggle will be gone. There is a tension bolt on the sway bars, after you get the WD dialed in and the second bar on we can adjust this bolt in 1/4 turns until the optimum dampening is achieved.

Remember the on off handle on the sway bars are just that. On off bars. I would bottom them out on mine and then back the handle off about 1/4 turn to be parallel with the frame.

Oh, you don't have to pay $100.00 for a second bar anyway. You can buy them on Amazon for around $40.00 or used on craigslist for even cheaper from time to time.

On edit I agree with BenK on lowering the hitch head one more hole. He posted while I was typing my last reply. This will achieve a nose down attitude which is good for tongue weight and will help the handling.

You can do this when you are adjusting the tilt of the hitch head.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[BenK]

Welcome to the forum !

Think you are a victim of the OEM marketing ratings game, but that is
the only way they can and still be competitive with the other OEMs


Guessing you are just under, at, or over your GVWR. Most likely over

What options does your F150 have? AC? 4x4? Automatic? Upgraded interior?
Power seats/windows/doors? Anything else over the 'stripper' model?

All of those options take away from the labeled 'cargo', 'payload' and
the biggie: MTWR...pound for pound.

Then toss in the 'stuff' you load in/on the TV. People, pets, ice chest,
toolchest, spare coolant, etc, etc...and...again takes away from those
ratings pound for pound.

Why think you are near, at, or over your GVWR

It 'can' tow it as you indicated, but not well...nor safely when that
close or over the ratings. Careful on verbiage here. Sales folks are
'right' that it 'can' tow it, as most anything 'can' tow it. How safely
and how long is the real metrics to consider.

Over the ratings won't have the wheels instantly fall off...they will
just sooner than later. Safety is also lessened when over the limits.

But, you have what you have

Most of the advice are adjustments and they do work, but best to have
a goal to understand how these adjustments work

The TV should drop evenly, or as your manual instructs.

The TT should be pointing down or at its highest pointing level.
Trailers 'follow' better that way. Your image says to me, that it is pointing above level.

For that, consider dropping your hitch head a hole on the shank. Then
re-setup the WD system

The adjustments (number of links, head tilt, washers, etc, etc) all
work on getting the WD bars (whether round or trunnion) to have more
purchase (or distance it is able to be preloaded). That is all to have
enough of the tongue loading WD'd to the TV's front axle

There are other factors working against you.

The overall weight or heft of your half ton is on the light side to
manhandle large trailers.

Made worse by the length, which is the lever arm on the TV's pivot (ball)
to the TV's rear axle. The longer either of those lever arms are, the
more effect they have on the stability of the TV

Side wind sail area also plays into that

'P' class tires are soft and weak in sidewall stiffness compared to
the next higher class tire, 'LT' class. Again, you have what you have
to air them up to the max molded in sidewall PSI.

Are these OEM tires and wheels? Lifted?

Another is too light a tongue weight or percentage of actual trailer
weight. Again, best to weigh it axle by axle, fully loaded. That is the
only way to know where you are in reference to the ratings.

[handye9]

For cargo capacity (payload) - you need to subtract every pound of everything and everybody, added in or on the truck. That includes any aftermart accessory, like bed liners, undercoating, tool boxes, and weight distributing hitch. Whatever is left over, is available for trailer tongue weight.

Your actual "available payload", is probably less than the 623 lbs, you have calculated.

[handye9]

karlrmac wrote:

GVWR = 7100 LB
Cargo Cap = 1653 LB
driver/passenger/cargo = 1030 LB EST (2 adults, 4 kids, 1 dog, 200 lb added for cargo)
Leaves 623 for trailer

Available payload of 623 lbs, is not enough for your trailer. It has 825 lbs of tongue weight, when it's empty. An average camping load (pots and pans, dishes, clothing, bedding, camp chairs, BBQ, groceries, and water) and a WD hitch would push that 825, up close to 1000 lbs. Maybe higher.

[karlrmac]

We took a picture of everything on our last outing. It seems to tow level, but here is a pic if you can tell anything while it sits still (although the cab is empty).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4754yde65r2vsvr/TrkTTpic1.jpg


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahpm0p4k5nuboiu/TrkTTpic2.jpg

Karl

Mvander wrote:
Start with the basics.
Does the trailer tow level to slightly nose down.
Do you have enough tounge wt.
Is the wdh set up properly. If the dealer did it that is no guarantee its right.

[karlrmac]

People weight is right at 800# for the six of us. This last trip we had the dog (in cab) and 4 bicycles in the bed along with a cooler of food and the truck box that is always on the truck. I'm guessing the box is 200#-300# loaded.

Would mounted on the tongue include the 2 propane tanks and battery?

Karl

Keith Haw wrote:
Clicky

Clicky

One thing I can see right off the bat is, you probably don't have enough cargo capacity for that trailer and your occupants and gear. If the numbers you posted are correct, and I suspect they are, you only have about #800 for you and passengers, your gear and anything loaded in the front of the trailer or mounted to the tongue. The posted unloaded tongue weight is #825 and your gross cargo weight is only #1653. That only leaves #828 for everything else.

[karlrmac]

I did some research about the WD over the weekend and found that I may have to move the chain link tighter one. I did that on the way back from camp and it relieved the bouncing issue on the road, but not sure if that was really related or not. I'm getting information from the trailer stickers tonight (we have the trailer at a storage place).

We looked at the weight going in and it seemed okay between everyone we spoke with, but I am concerned the conversation may have been more centered on the sale than the safety. It will be a bad thing if this doesn't work out safely.

Thanks for all the information and I'll keep plugging away to get this as best as it can be. I'm sure I'll be here often.

Karl

jerem0621 wrote:
First of all, the advice above is correct except you don't need to go spend a bunch more money on an integrated sway control hitch. When we just need to set up the one you have correctly.

We can "probably" get yours dialed in,

We need to know a few more facts... You gave us the facts on your truck, now we need the same information from your trailer.

The number one and number 2 cause of trailer sway is insufficient tongue weight and too light of a front tow vehicle axle.

The second sway bar on the other side of the trailer is needed but will not solve your bad set up. Fix the WD first then we can worry about the friction dampeners. (Once set up correctly it will pull better)

We need more details about the trailer first...

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[MitchF150]

Your F150 has the lowest GVWR and lowest rear GAWR that they come with, so that's not helping.

Good luck with it! It's more than just getting something that's close to the trucks "tow rating" and having it still all work out.. 😉

Mitch

[Keith_Haw]

Clicky

Clicky

One thing I can see right off the bat is, you probably don't have enough cargo capacity for that trailer and your occupants and gear. If the numbers you posted are correct, and I suspect they are, you only have about #800 for you and passengers, your gear and anything loaded in the front of the trailer or mounted to the tongue. The posted unloaded tongue weight is #825 and your gross cargo weight is only #1653. That only leaves #828 for everything else.

[jerem0621]

First of all, the advice above is correct except you don't need to go spend a bunch more money on an integrated sway control hitch. When we just need to set up the one you have correctly.

We can "probably" get yours dialed in,

We need to know a few more facts... You gave us the facts on your truck, now we need the same information from your trailer.

The number one and number 2 cause of trailer sway is insufficient tongue weight and too light of a front tow vehicle axle.

The second sway bar on the other side of the trailer is needed but will not solve your bad set up. Fix the WD first then we can worry about the friction dampeners. (Once set up correctly it will pull better)

We need more details about the trailer first...

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Drew_K]

My initial reaction is that you don't have enough tongue weight on the trailer, although I would definitely follow the advice above. 33' is pretty large for an F150 but I think doable if set up properly.

What's the gross weight and tongue weight for your trailer?

[karlrmac]

"You should get actual weights on truck and trailer. Check the loading sticker, on your drivers door post, for GVWR and cargo carrying capacity (payload) of the truck. If you subtract your driver / passenger / cargo weights from your payload, and find you have insufficient capacity to carry another 1000 lbs from the trailer, you are over weight when hitched up."

GVWR = 7100 LB
Cargo Cap = 1653 LB
driver/passenger/cargo = 1030 LB EST (2 adults, 4 kids, 1 dog, 200 lb added for cargo)
Leaves 623 for trailer

handye9 wrote:
There are several causes / contributors to sway issues. Trailer sway can be caused by just one, or, a combination of two or more contributors.

1. Not enough tongue weight
2. Impropper adjustment of WDH
3. Impropper adjustment or insufficient sway control device
4. Unbalanced tire pressures in truck or trailer
5. Soft suspension on tow vehicle
6. Tire sidewall flex on tow vehicle
7. Unbalanced load in trailer
8. Bad roads
9. Wind
10. Hitch ball set too high. Trailer tows nose up
11. Tow vehicle overloaded

Without seeing the actual specs on your truck, it is possible, you have issues with almost all of the listed causes.

I found these numbers for a Hideout 31BHS

Length 33' 11" (lets just say 34 feet)
unloaded trailer 6780 lbs
unloaded hitch 825 lbs (loaded to gross weight-- this could be 1250+)
cargo capacity 2845
Gross weight 9625 lbs

There are versions of the F150, that are not rated to tow a trailer this big. Some of them, only have 750 lbs of payload, while others have up to 3100 lbs. Payload is your capacity to carry fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer hitch weight combined.

You should get actual weights on truck and trailer. Check the loading sticker, on your drivers door post, for GVWR and cargo carrying capacity (payload) of the truck. If you subtract your driver / passenger / cargo weights from your payload, and find you have insufficient capacity to carry another 1000 lbs from the trailer, you are over weight when hitched up.

[karlrmac]

I have attached my stickers here. The research we did prior to the purchase said we were okay, but I hope all was done properly :). The tow capacity is rated at 8000 lbs.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t0o8wolixr5l7oy/GAWRSticker.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i8lk6bcuv25m75a/TireLoadInfo.jpg

Apparently the images wont load or attach. Until I figure it out, here are the numbers:

STICKER INFO:
F150 Crew XLT w/ tow package 5.0 V8 3.55 145" WB GCWR 13,500 18" tires
Front GAWR: 3450 LB, Rear GAWR: 3850 LB, GVWR: 7100 LB
Combined weight of occupants: 1653 LBS