Homeless migration to RVs creating problems

[Durb]

There seems to be a trend for the homeless to get an old RV and live on the streets. County officials admit their hands are are tied as they do not have proper laws in place to deal with the problem. Nor do they have the proper funds. Our county estimates it costs $3,000 to tow and salvage an abandoned RV. Private landowners with RVers squatting on their property are also having problems. Towing companies will not remove the rigs as they know they won't get paid.

It looks to be a growing problem without an easy financial solution. Will we start seeing salvage taxes on our RV registration renewals?

[ExxWhy]

Is it more humane to the mentally ill to just leave them fend for themselves on the street or put them someplace they will have food and shelter and some medical care? Is it better for the children (victims of their parents poor skills) to be left on the street or to be taken in? Is it better for society to have people living in tents on the sidewalks and using the street as a latrine or perhaps someplace else?

[lots2seeinmyrv]

We have many empty lots with closed strip malls. These would be a cheaper alternative to housing on bus lines.

Malls are disappearing. City would be better to invest the money into converting them to this type of affordable housing instead of them lying in waste and complete eye sores.

1 - Convert one of the empty stores on the strip mall into a laundry mat.

2 - Convert one of the empty stores into a Licensed Daycare Center.

3 - Convert one of the empty stores into an afterschool program, could be run by the Church.

Add a metal carport and storage shed.

Low payment, roof over your head, and will help people get on their feet.

Not free! Low monthly payment.

We could also use these for 55+ Seniors who want to downsize and create communities for them too.

RVs leak, FEMA trailers are junk.

Government housing is not cheap to build and not appreciated if no skin in the game. We do not need to spend billions of government waste.

These could be built off site and set on slabs.

One bedroom and Loft for the kids. That's it!

Get it done! 1,000's of these Cabins would be a welcome relief to many.

[time2roll]

I speculate it is not the homeless that are moving off the street to the RVs but rather mostly tenants and homeowners that can no longer afford their current place of residence. As a last ditch effort they buy a very used RV to stay off the street and out of a shelter. I think this is why the RV homeless is more on the west coast where there is very little and declining housing at the low end economically.

[magicbus]

jplante4 wrote:

jplante4 wrote:

magicbus wrote:
I wasn’t going to get the involved but this has been an amazingly civil thread (of course I haven’t seen what’s been deleted 🙂 )
Dave

Surprisingly, I haven't deleted any posts. It's been pretty civil. Let's not ruin it.

Spoke too soon. 😞

:B

[Cloud_Dancer]

I love these forums. This may not be useful in solving problems, but IMO it serves as a way to stay in touch, and get to know each other. How do you describe the difference between knowledge and opinion.

[jplante4]

jplante4 wrote:

magicbus wrote:
I wasn’t going to get the involved but this has been an amazingly civil thread (of course I haven’t seen what’s been deleted 🙂 )
Dave

Surprisingly, I haven't deleted any posts. It's been pretty civil. Let's not ruin it.

Spoke too soon. 😞

[TechWriter]

ExxWhy wrote:

I have a nice practical solution few would like, but here ya go.

Camps/compounds with free food, free housing, and even free drugs. Very compassionate and caring of these poor downtrodden, they don't go hungry and have a roof over their heads. They can come and go as they please but they cannot go hang out on the street and be the typical homeless menace. Repeat offenders of violating that rule go to different camps where gravel is produced from large rocks using large hammers.

Ah, special homeless camps. Maybe to keep track of them we should just issue papers documenting where they've stayed and for how long. Or, to keep it simple, just make the homeless wear special armbands or insignias on their clothes so the rest of us can tell with a glance who they are.

However, I do draw the line at rock breaking. Since about 2.5 million homeless are children, they should only have to break small rocks into pebbles, don't you think?

ExxWhy wrote:

If these people want to drop out of life, then so be it.

I don't believe the homeless who are mentally ill or the children or those who don't earn enough had much to say about it.

[JRscooby]

jplante4 wrote:

magicbus wrote:
I wasn’t going to get the involved but this has been an amazingly civil thread (of course I haven’t seen what’s been deleted 🙂 )
Dave

Surprisingly, I haven't deleted any posts. It's been pretty civil. Let's not ruin it.

IMHO, we have been told "Don't discuss politics in polite society" for so long we have come to the conclusion politics can't be discussed politely. I think in a democracy children should study and practice politics instead of football.

Orcadrvr wrote:
Since we are trying to come up with solutions, here is mine:
Based on the assumption that the vast majority of these "homeless" people are mentally ill or addicted, I propose that we re-institute involuntary commitment for these people in humanely run institutions (not jails), until their underlying conditions are addressed.

As to this; In both homelessness and gun violence many say the problem is based in mental health. But when a very small step toward trying to solve the problem a large percentage of the population, and their representatives, went absolutely hair on fire batsnot crazy to get the law repealed.

Let's not forget the wide spread availability of food stamps and other forms of welfare payments which are available.

Ever talk to anybody about the requirements are to qualify?

[westernrvparkow]

JRscooby wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

But a quick internet search found many apartments in Independence Missouri in the $600 a month range. A frugal single person can afford that on minimum wage. A couple where both are making even the minimum wage wouldn't even have to be frugal. Housing costs are not the cause of homelessness in your world.

I do not think housing prices in this area have outpaced inflation near as much as west coast.
Ok, what percentage of your income do you (or people in your income range. I don't know you, but if somebody is making house payments I figure they are renting from bank) spend for rent? In my court ordered personal money management class we where told it should not be over 30%. So that means a income of over $1800 a month, or 240 hours of minimum wage work. And the add the idea most employers in this area that pay minimum wage do not allow anybody to get close to 40 hours a week. And most minimum wage workers understand they are unlikely to work the same hours day to day let alone week to week. This makes it hard to take a 2nd job. ("Sorry, I can't work these hours, I have to work...)
Fact is over a decade ago, lots of people that had middle class jobs lost their jobs, houses etc. And at that time, a couple of graduating classes came into a labor market where jobs that paid enough to pay the loans where rare. Most of the people that lost the high paying jobs went back to work, but took a pay cut. So they are in lower priced housing, crowding out the lower income. This will be a issue for a generation.

True, I don't live in your world. In my world all the homeless are not college grads. The police are not lurking around every corner looking to violate my rights and steal my money. And the rich aren't out to get me, they just don't care about me one way or the other. However I understand that is how you see things in your world.

Are the worlds different? Not all homeless are collage grads, but unexpected decisions can cause homelessness. The wrong health insurance policy can put even somebody pretty well off into bankruptcy. That may not take your house, but if you get sick again before the time limit between bankruptcy?
The police? Under civil asset forfeiture rules you have to prove you did nothing wrong, not the "innocent until proven guilty" we were taught to expect. And a large percentage of the population do not know the laws are in force. Many when you try to explain ether start waving the Constitution saying it can't happen. Others say "good, crime did not pay" without understanding that if the criminal did not need to be convicted, then you would not need to be convicted to lose your stuff.
Rich don't care about me? Not as long as I pay my taxes, and can be manipulated into voting for the people that will keep them from paying theirs. Fact is class war has gone on since the start of capitalism, but for the last 40+ years the rich have been winning.

You sure have a lot of reasons for failure, but none of them seem to include "I screwed up.". I have never been sentenced court ordered money management but I doubt that the course taught that if you can't rent for that recommended 30% you should live on the street.
The minimum wage in Missouri is $8.60. A forty hour work week will earn the minimum wage worker $1490.00 a month (40 hours x $8.60 x 4.333 weeks per month). Using an on line calculator to determine take home pay in Missouri that minimum wage worker will take home $1292.00. Even using your ridiculous assumption that a minimum wage worker can only work 40 hours, not a minute more, in a month that is enough money to pay a $600.00 rent, pay the water and electric bill and eat. No there isn't money left over for a thousand dollar smartphone, a European vacation every six months, a new BMW or even a car of any kind. But you aren't living on the street.
The good news is this mythical minimum wage worker won't have anything to lose when the big bad civil forfeiture police come knocking on their apartment door.

[Orcadrvr]

Since we are trying to come up with solutions, here is mine:
Based on the assumption that the vast majority of these "homeless" people are mentally ill or addicted, I propose that we re-institute involuntary commitment for these people in humanely run institutions (not jails), until their underlying conditions are addressed.
People who repeatedly "fall off the wagon" would be institutionalized for longer and longer terms.
Some people will never be able to function in society. It is much more humane for them to be institutionalized than to lie in the gutter or rant and rave at the lampposts, or to attack random people in the street.
The small minority of people who are merely temporarily economically "up a creek" can be helped with temporary housing, for perhaps up to 90 days. By then, they should be able to get back on their feet.
Let's not forget the wide spread availability of food stamps and other forms of welfare payments which are available.
And, no one has a constitutional right to live on the beach in California. There are cheaper communities all over the country, and they should be encouraged to migrate to places where it is possible to live on far less money.

[ExxWhy]

goducks10 wrote:
Still no solutions.

I have a nice practical solution few would like, but here ya go.

Camps/compounds with free food, free housing, and even free drugs. Very compassionate and caring of these poor downtrodden, they don't go hungry and have a roof over their heads. They can come and go as they please but they cannot go hang out on the street and be the typical homeless menace. Repeat offenders of violating that rule go to different camps where gravel is produced from large rocks using large hammers.

If these people want to drop out of life, then so be it. Don't ruin it for everyone else. It would be MUCH MUCH cheaper to run these camps than to deal with the blight and crime that we as a society are currently dealing with. Those that want to "graduate" and rejoin the working world can do so much easier from the camp than from the freeway underpass.

[jplante4]

magicbus wrote:
I wasn’t going to get the involved but this has been an amazingly civil thread (of course I haven’t seen what’s been deleted 🙂 )
Dave

Surprisingly, I haven't deleted any posts. It's been pretty civil. Let's not ruin it.

[jplante4]

When we retired, I looked at where we were living and did a little research into how far our now fixed income would go living somewhere else. It was just an academic exercise, because the DW will never leave here.

I only mention this because Independence MO came out as one of the places that worked (other than no ocean nearby). Median income of $46k means I wouldn't have to work 2 part time jobs and could live off just my SS and investments. That $600 mentioned by WRVPO is just slightly more than my condo fees here (although we'd want 2 bedrooms which run around $800).

But let's face it, if you're about to become homeless in Independence MO, you're probably going to use your last $100 to buy a bus ticket to some place warm.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Papa Steve wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
Watch the uTube video Seattle is Dying for a larger perspective of the problem which includes RVs.

Thanks for posting this. I just watched it and now think we should try the Rhode Island approach, enforcement and intervention, in some of the larger cities. good documentary

I finally had the free time to watch this eye-opening documentary - and yes, it DOES show a viable solution to homelessness when it involves drugs or criminal activity. Also makes me cross Seattle off my "places to visit" list until they get their act together....

[JRscooby]

fj12ryder wrote:
"but for the last 40+ years the rich have been winning."

What in heaven's name gave you the idea it started 40+ years ago? It's always been that way, check out Carnegie, Astor, Fisk, Rockefeller, and even earlier. It's the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules".

You are right, but the rise of unions and government regulation had put a check on their power after WWII. And between that time and the dawn of "Trickle down Economics" we had a major growth of the middle class, (people most likely to buy RV) the development of weekend, (when most owners use their RV) work week shortened to 40 hours, development of interstate highway system, most roads paved, (most RVers need)