New trailer swaying, looking for advice

[Gussie757]

Hello! Brand new posting, but have read the forum for a long time.

Brief intro.. We have camped for many years, our first camper was a 17 foot Palomino Stampede Hybrid. We towed it with a Nissan Pathfinder, and more recently a Honda Pilot. Both towed it fine, no issues whatsoever.

We recently bought a 16 foot Scamp Deluxe. When my husband towed it back empty from the factory here in MN, he had some sway issues at highway speeds, 55-60. Since then, there have been more sway issues locally, so we don't want to take it out until we get the problem solved.

We did take it to the cat scale, it weighs 2280 pounds, with not much in it. I now know we need to get the tongue weight to see if it is too light. The tongue has just the battery and one full propane tank, not yet used.

Ok, my questions, I didn't want to get too long-- Where to go from here? Get the tongue weight. If the tongue weight is too light how do we increase it? We're really light weekend campers, and besides clothes and food, it wouldn't be much. I get that the cooler would be heavy, but it would be empty coming home so that would be a problem?

And in my starting research, just getting a weight distribution hitch or anti sway bars without finding out the reason behind the sway sometimes isn't the best solution? Could there be something wrong with the Scamp? How would I find that out?

Anyway thanks for reading, hope I covered everything, any ideas would be great. My husband is super busy at work so I thought I'd read up and see what I can find out. We've just never experienced this before. I'm pretty sure the Palomino weighed more and for sure had a higher and wider profile, but the weight distribution must have been right or something. Thanks! Karin

[Michael_in_MN]

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[Michael_in_MN]

rexlion wrote:
This is a new 2013 Scamp 16. Today I read of two other people with 2013 Scamp 16s who are having sway problems as well. I am beginning to wonder if Scamp made a design change that is causing this! You should call Scamp and make them aware of your sway troubles. This really should not be occurring unless you've misloaded the trailer badly.

Scamp? Design change? Am I in some weird parallel universe?

:B

[rexlion]

This is a new 2013 Scamp 16. Today I read of two other people with 2013 Scamp 16s who are having sway problems as well. I am beginning to wonder if Scamp made a design change that is causing this! You should call Scamp and make them aware of your sway troubles. This really should not be occurring unless you've misloaded the trailer badly.

[Ron3rd]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Gussie757 wrote:
Thank you all for your comments, all very helpful! Tongue weight will definitely be checked and weight added if needed.

The scamp is a single axle, and brand new, picked up from the factory early July. It has a side bathroom, I think the fresh water tank is in the back and empty. We don't have anything on the back, but there is a spare there that it came with. The swaying occurs when on the highway, speeds between 55 and 60, not braking. The Scamp salesman said the hitch height should be at 21", and we had to get a new ball mount(?), but my husband felt it was too nose up, and changed it to be more level. I will tell him about some preferring it nose down a bit.

Had it weighed at a Cat scale, It weighs 2280 pounds, not completely loaded for camping, but close. I thought it would weigh more than that, considering all the options we added. We will weigh it again hooked and unhooked. I'm not sure how to add photos, maybe I can try later. Once again, thanks, all advice much appreciated! Karin

Karin, the problem with super light trailers is it's VERY easy to get them out of balance.

IOW's your little trailer may only have 300 lbs of tongue weight on it. If you put lets say 150 lbs of cloths in the very back you can get rid of 50% of your tongue weight and that will instantly put you into a sway situation.

Where lets say if you have a trailer with 1,500 lbs of tongue weight and you put 150 lbs of cloths in the very back it will not effect the tongue weight % very much.

IOW's you have to REALLY be careful with light trailers and pack them accordingly. Make sense?

What Turtle said is very true. They are very sensitive to how they're loaded, and I definitely would want it a bit nose down and NEVER nose up.

A buddy had a Coleman popup that he towed behind his F150. It weighed maybe 2,500 lbs fully loaded. The first time he towed it, he could barely keep it on the road due to extreme sway at about 50 mph. Those little trailers can be very finicky. He just added a single friction sway bar and that worked for him. I don't know if they make WD hitches for trailers that small or even if they're recommended, but generally the WD hitches make a HUGE difference. Good luck and you're on the right path to getting your problem solved.

BTW, the Scamp has a HUGE following and forums of their own so you might want to check there also for Scamp specific recommendations. The last time I was at Zion, a Scamp club was there with about 50 Scamps, all having a great time!

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Gussie757 wrote:
Thank you all for your comments, all very helpful! Tongue weight will definitely be checked and weight added if needed.

The scamp is a single axle, and brand new, picked up from the factory early July. It has a side bathroom, I think the fresh water tank is in the back and empty. We don't have anything on the back, but there is a spare there that it came with. The swaying occurs when on the highway, speeds between 55 and 60, not braking. The Scamp salesman said the hitch height should be at 21", and we had to get a new ball mount(?), but my husband felt it was too nose up, and changed it to be more level. I will tell him about some preferring it nose down a bit.

Had it weighed at a Cat scale, It weighs 2280 pounds, not completely loaded for camping, but close. I thought it would weigh more than that, considering all the options we added. We will weigh it again hooked and unhooked. I'm not sure how to add photos, maybe I can try later. Once again, thanks, all advice much appreciated! Karin

Karin, the problem with super light trailers is it's VERY easy to get them out of balance.

IOW's your little trailer may only have 300 lbs of tongue weight on it. If you put lets say 150 lbs of cloths in the very back you can get rid of 50% of your tongue weight and that will instantly put you into a sway situation.

Where lets say if you have a trailer with 1,500 lbs of tongue weight and you put 150 lbs of cloths in the very back it will not effect the tongue weight % very much.

IOW's you have to REALLY be careful with light trailers and pack them accordingly. Make sense?

[Gussie757]

This is the Scamp, a 16 foot. Karin

Moderator edit to re-size picture to forum limit of 640px maximum width.

[Gussie757]

Thank you all for your comments, all very helpful! Tongue weight will definitely be checked and weight added if needed.

The scamp is a single axle, and brand new, picked up from the factory early July. It has a side bathroom, I think the fresh water tank is in the back and empty. We don't have anything on the back, but there is a spare there that it came with. The swaying occurs when on the highway, speeds between 55 and 60, not braking. The Scamp salesman said the hitch height should be at 21", and we had to get a new ball mount(?), but my husband felt it was too nose up, and changed it to be more level. I will tell him about some preferring it nose down a bit.

Had it weighed at a Cat scale, It weighs 2280 pounds, not completely loaded for camping, but close. I thought it would weigh more than that, considering all the options we added. We will weigh it again hooked and unhooked. I'm not sure how to add photos, maybe I can try later. Once again, thanks, all advice much appreciated! Karin

[TomG2]

Ben made a start, but as he mentioned there is a lot more than lowering the front of the trailer to look at. Tow vehicle capacity, tire pressures, alignment, the tires themselves, trailer weight, tongue weight, wheelbase of tow vehicle, and the list goes on. Most people learn a lot by spending ten or twelve dollars at the scales to see where they are on their weights for starters, then make adjustments accordingly.

[BenK]

It is a whole system and most only look at components of that system.

Then as absolutes or out of context, though each component is important.

The whole setup's final orientation when fully loaded ready to go camping is
what I'll talk about

The trailer should be level at it's highest pointing (again, fully loaded ready
to go camping)...or pointed slightly down

The key thing for the TV is to have enough weight on the front axle (not so
much removed by the tongue weight, but if your numbers are correct, then should
not be a major issue for now)

There are huge discussions on the front axle weights and has to do with having
to toss out the old rules of thumb of 'even drop'. Again, since you have such
a light trailer and tongue should not be an issue, yet.

Reason is to keep the whole setup, but mainly the TV in an under-steering tendency
Meaning that in an extreme condition, the front end of the TV will let loose
sooner than the rear. AKA 'plowing'. That prevents or lessens the tendency to
jack knife

A Pilot is an Odyssey based platform. So similar to towing with a beefed up
and taller Odyssey

I think the trailers tongue is pointed too high and I'd recommend starting there

Good luck !

[ScottG]

If your fresh water tank is forward of the axles then you could try filling that to see if the extra weight helps.

[rexlion]

After thinking about it some more, I'd like to add a point or two.

You might think about when the sway is occurring. If it's only when you are braking, for example, that might suggest a problem with the trailer brakes; perhaps only one side is working.

Your Scamp is around 2200 lbs. You'd want at least 200 lbs tongue weight, preferably 250 to 300 lbs. Too little tongue weight is the most common sway inducement. However, too MUCH tongue weight (say, 350 lbs or more?) could be taking too much weight off your tug's front axle, affecting steering control and thus perhaps allowing the tail to wag the dog.

One person I'm aware of suddenly started having sway with his 21' Bigfoot, towed by an F350. It turned out that both of the trailer springs had broken, and when he braked he sometimes got a violent sway rhythm. So it is possible for mechanical problems to cause sway, but these problems can sometimes be hard to ferret out... he stumped several mechanics on the route to his solution. (Makes me wonder how good the mechanics were, though.) You might need to crawl underneath and inspect the frame and everything.

[Road_Ruler]

Can you post a pic or two of your rig please.

thnxs

[fla-gypsy]

You are on the right track to figure out the tongue weight first which is most likely the culprit. The position of the FW tank can be key to solving this also. If behind the axle keep it mostly empty, if in front keep it full. Water weighs 8.3 lbs per gallon.

[rfryer]

Offhand I’m not familiar with your Scamp, but I’m pretty confident it’s a single axle. I pull an older 16’ SA TT. When I pulled it with a full size Bronco I’d occasionally get some minor sway which I immediately tweaked out with the manual controller. It wasn’t bad, but I always had to be conscious of it. When I went to an F150 I never had a hint of a sway again, it tracks like a rock. I attributed it to the longer wheelbase, but I don’t know that for a fact.

Oddly enough, I only have 10% of my TT GVW on the tongue, which is light. I’d expect 12-15%. My water tank is right at the axle and if I fill it I put 20# more on my TW. So I wonder where your tank is in relation to the axle. You wouldn’t want it behind the axle because that’s a lot of weight to take off the tongue. And it sounds like your problem is light TW.

If I were in your shoes the next trip I made loaded to go I’d hit a scale and weigh the TV only and then the TV and TT hooked up. You’d then have real numbers to work with and you’d know your TW. Dry weights aren’t much use to you. I don’t use wd or sway control and I wouldn’t think you should need it either on that light a TT.

If your water tank is toward the front of the axle you could fill it, that would put weight on the tongue. Or you could load as much as possible forward to get the same effect. But until you confirm your TW is good you don’t know what else to look for.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

I would get 200lbs of stuff from your house and load it in the front of the trailer and take it for a ride to see how it handles with high tongue weight.

You know, stuff!! My wife can do it and so can you. :W Cement bags, cases of water or soda...........you get the point. You don't have any heavy stuff in the back do you?

Some trailers are poorly designed and have their axels to far forward. This makes for low tongue weight and this causes sway. It your trailer this way? I have know idea.

Load up the front end and take it for a little road trip and find out.