Probs getting title

[chrisaukcam]

My daughter brought a trailer from D&J Trailer sales in Indiana several months ago. She paid for it upfront. They delivered the trailer - but despite umpteen phone calls, no title! Not sure what options we have at this point. But it is very frustrating.

[Lwiddis]

Hopefully daughter has learned....pop too.

[avan]

jkwilson wrote:
A dealer selling a vehicle in Indiana that they can’t provide a title for will be hammered by the Attorney General’s office.

True but little satisfaction. While getting hammered (after AG office takes its time finding its hammer) the buyer still does not have title, can't get a plate, can't legally drive it to a campground etc to say nothing of dealing with resultant possible ulcers. Do the darn transaction right. Before parting with your money be sure you are getting everything you're paying for. OP has come back saying the actual seller is an estate. Over my career I can't count the number of times people have been dealing with those nice people handling an estate only to have it blow up in their face because one heir wasn't consulted and decides he/she can't part with dad's car or whatever. And then it seems as though there is general agreement that if a dealer or salesman is talking, they are lying but, in this case, OP's child hands over hard earned, after tax dad's dollars to this person without taking possession of the title half of the transaction???

[jkwilson]

A dealer selling a vehicle in Indiana that they can’t provide a title for will be hammered by the Attorney General’s office.

[Okie1]

I had the same problem with a car that we purchased from a dealer years ago. I contacted the State Police and they took care of it, I got my title and dealer got time to think about his business practices(In jail)

[JoeH]

Since it came from an estate, you are going to have to show continuity in ownership from the person that had it in the estate to you via the dealer. I recently went through that with a utility trailer that came with some property I purchased through a party that had bought the property from the estate and had never retitled the trailer. I had to go back to the family/executor of the estate, get them to fillout forms the DMV required.

[JoeH]

Since it came from an estate, you are going to have to show continuity in ownership from the person that had it in the estate to you via the dealer. I recently went through that with a utility trailer that came with some property I purchased through a party that had bought the property from the estate and had never retitled the trailer. I had to go back to the family/executor of the estate, get them to fillout forms the DMV required.

[hornet28]

Worse than Avan alluded to is maybe the person who dropped it at the dealers lot didn't have legal authority to decide to sell it. If so your daughter could be losing that trailer

[Grit_dog]

Contact the Indiana dmv and see what the next step is. You have a bill of sale.
You can likely file for a lost title/replacement. OR, are you certain IN titles trailers? I see registration fees, but some states don't title trailers. Not certain if this is the case.
If the scuzzy dealer won't do anything, try a workaround with the DMV.

[avan]

Aah. Even worse. It was a consignment deal. Dealer probably never even had title in hand and for all you know the seller is now telling dealer that he never had written authorization to sell at 'that ridiculously low price' and is trying to leverage dealer and your daughter is in the middle of a fight with a private party on the other side who she doesn't know and can't do a **** thing about it. On a consignment sale, THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON NOT TO WALK OUT WITH THE SIGNED OFF TITLE.

I know that people who know me believe I don't trust anyone and they are wrong. I trust but verify and only if I can't verify do I revert to the 'not trust anyone' mode. If your daughter waits one more minute to pull the plug on this, she's (trying to think of a nice word). She has your money. Step up.

[chrisaukcam]

Thanks for responses so far. I sent her the link to the state of Indiana webpage that details what to do if you don't get the title. She got a bill of sale - I loaned the money to her to buy the trailer from D & J Trailers in Indiana, hence my interest. She went to the dealership with a certified check from me the next day and came with the the aforementioned BoS stamped paid - no title. I was surprised, I had thought we were good to go from the way he talked on the first night. They delivered the trailer, etc. But despite numerous calls we keep getting the run around. This was part of an estate and i worry that something is snarled up with that. But it would seem to me that it would be unethical or illegal to sell something you don't have clear title to. Anyway thanks for ideas. Against my judgement, she wants to give them 1 more week before dropping the hammer.

[Grit_dog]

Sorry, misread the first post. Sounds like it was paid for in full at or before possession.
You have an issue w the dealer if they’re not returning calls. Make sure there’s no reason to haven’t gotten mco and then keep hounding them?

[Grit_dog]

2 pages of speculation and the OP didn’t even describe who they have the issue with.
Not enough info given to know what to reccomend.
Was the dealer to register it?
Did the buyer get a MCO and thinks a title will magically appear?
What did the buyer do to register it? If anything yet?
Was the trailer new or used, sounds like new.
Is there a loan on it? Does the bank have it?

Need more info.
But new trailer, paid in full, either the dealer sends in title and reg or buyer walks away with a mco and does it themselves.

[avan]

JALLEN4 wrote:


In many cases dealers do not physically have possession of a title or MSO. They are often held by the floorplan source financing the inventory for the dealer. In this case the dealer sells the unit, collects the money, and then pays the financing source and receives the title or MSO. The problem can then start where the dealer uses the customers cash for operating expenses and fails to pay the floorplan source to obtain the title. This is called "selling out of trust" and unfortunately happens several times a year.

If it has truly been several months, the OP's daughter should immediately contact the Indiana DMV and file a complaint. Every state has laws about titles and no state would have laws where the dealer has months to produce a title. This time period is a prima facia proof of a problem. Good luck!

Yes. Some decades ago my bank floor planned quite a number of dealers - mostly auto (new) but some boat and RV dealers as well. Unannounced floor plan audits were conducted during the year to match inventory on hand to pledged collateral. Discrepancies were almost always found with car dealers and those needed to be reconciled (loaner car, test drives etc). Rarely would one expect to see such a discrepancy with RVs or boats or at least far fewer. Unfortunately sometime the discrepancy was due to the dealer selling the collateral and not making the agreed upon reduction in the line of credit. That is a serious offense in banking and on some occasions led to corporate bankruptcy and even jail.

The bank/lender has the collateral titles and thus 'ownership' of the vehicle, albeit the possession of the vehicle may be in the hands of the non owner buyer whose funds the dealer embezzled. Not a good place to be if you are the person who paid the dealer but was so excited to take possession of the vehicle so as to ignore the titling process or believe the dealer that the title would come "in due time". An individual caught up as a general creditor of a dealer is not a pretty sight.

Yes, you can purchase a vehicle and insist on receiving the title or equivalent at the time of purchase. The dealer can arrange with the floor planner to have the title/mso available at close. Just test that by telling the finance manager that there will be no wire transfer if both the vehicle AND title or equivalent are not available at closing. And if the dealer won't comply even faced with losing a sale, run away, don't walk.

OP's child probably has a big problem that didn't have to happen and is compounding it by not taking firm non-negotiable action.

[JALLEN4]

fj12ryder wrote:

avan wrote:
Not to be unsympathetic but she paid cash and did not leave with the hot little title in her hand? Like she trusted a 'stealer'? By now she's realizing that having the title in hand is as important or maybe more important than having the trailer in her drive. ...

Don't be so quick to judge something you seem to know little about. You don't always get a title from the dealer/seller when you buy a vehicle. We just bought a car in Kansas and you pay the dealer and you leave with paperwork, but no title, that comes in the mail after a week or two. We knew that going in, that's the way Kansas does their paperwork.

So, no you don't always get a title.

It is always an option to pay the dealer for the vehicle and leave with either a title or the proper paperwork to obtain a title. You and the dealer would first need to decide what constitutes payment. Simply giving the dealer a check is not payment until the check is executed. Normally, wire transfer to the dealer would constitute payment. The dealer would then need to fill out the proper paperwork to change an existing title to the purchasers name or the necessary forms to change the MSO into a title in the purchasers name.

In many cases dealers do not physically have possession of a title or MSO. They are often held by the floorplan source financing the inventory for the dealer. In this case the dealer sells the unit, collects the money, and then pays the financing source and receives the title or MSO. The problem can then start where the dealer uses the customers cash for operating expenses and fails to pay the floorplan source to obtain the title. This is called "selling out of trust" and unfortunately happens several times a year.

If it has truly been several months, the OP's daughter should immediately contact the Indiana DMV and file a complaint. Every state has laws about titles and no state would have laws where the dealer has months to produce a title. This time period is a prima facia proof of a problem. Good luck!