Ram tow ratings

[southernsky]

I'm looking to purchase a Grand Design Solitude 384GK. The GVWR is 16,000 lbs. UVW 13,400 with the hitch weight of 3,150. My truck is a 2011 3500 Mega Cab dually, 4x4 ,3.73 gears, with the 6.7. Doing some homework of the tow rating of my truck am I seeing right of 2,600 payload and 12,950 Max. trailer? Seems a bit light for a 1 ton dually. At those numbers the Solitude 384GK will be to big for my truck.

[Cummins12V98]

NC Hauler wrote:

tinner12002 wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:


..Been driving light duty trucks since 75'.. Never drove MDT or a HDT for a living, but have driven some and even came close to purchasing one some years back..Been in Manufacturing since 1975...and 2 years before that...68-71...You either read wrong or have me confused with someone else:h

I was arguing that you don't need a HDT now a days since from 13 and on up, 1 ton dually's can tow heavy also..up to their recommended towing weights.





Jim

I'm sure our 1 tons are cheaper to insure, plate, fuel, drive, park and repair if needed and I bet more fun to drive in addition to being plenty capable of towing nearly any 5th wheel RV out there!!

I personally agree with you on this, but they'll be HDH's/HDT's that will HGHLY disagree because they are behind the times and don't know or understand the capabilities of the new/newer 1 ton Dually's from 2013 and up..


I don't know how they figure "cheaper" for the HDT when MOST of them have purchased ANOTHER car to drive around instead of the semi...cost of the car/insurance/fuel and maintenance.. and then same for the HDT...If I were going to tow a 25-30# 5er, (though, supposedly, my truck could do that.)..I wouldn't buy the 5er... MOST people don't want a semi cab towing 5er's that only have a GVWR of 15K-25K( some HDT's on escapees forum SWEAR YOU HAVE TI HAVE A HDT to tow a 16K GVW 5er:h..

It's so much nicer with a truck you can drive everywhere you want to go, take it to work, haul stuff in the bed, drive it to church or go sight seeing in it and use it in 4 wheel drive and be safe about it when needed.

Some need to wake up and "smell the coffee":B

Don't forget the safety factor! A lot of HDT people load a "NOT SO SMART" car on the back thinking they are saving money and the world.

[NC_Hauler]

W5CI wrote:
I have a RAM 3500 DRW diesel and I think anyone who has one shouldn't worry about towing a fifth wheel try with it, there are so many variables that it would take a rocket scientist to figure the tow rating, IMHO

My own personal opinion is that it is quite easy to figure out what one can tow..You are given GVWR, RAWR, GCWR...That's a lot of info that is extremely important..at least in my opinion...If I know the GVW of the 5er, I'm WAY ahead of the game and can "ballpark" pin weight fairly close, (Based on 20% of 5er GVW).


Not really "that" many variables with all the important "known" facts that are at hand..Weighing the truck ready to tow, but not hooked up is yet another tool to figure out how much pin weight your truck can handle safely...This is what I've used for years to figure out how much truck I needed to tow what I wanted to camp in.

Jim

[W5CI]

I have a RAM 3500 DRW diesel and I think anyone who has one shouldn't worry about towing a fifth wheel trl with it, there are so many variables that it would take a rocket sientist to figure the tow rating, IMHO

[NC_Hauler]

tinner12002 wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:


..Been driving light duty trucks since 75'.. Never drove MDT or a HDT for a living, but have driven some and even came close to purchasing one some years back..Been in Manufacturing since 1975...and 2 years before that...68-71...You either read wrong or have me confused with someone else:h

I was arguing that you don't need a HDT now a days since from 13 and on up, 1 ton dually's can tow heavy also..up to their recommended towing weights.





Jim

I'm sure our 1 tons are cheaper to insure, plate, fuel, drive, park and repair if needed and I bet more fun to drive in addition to being plenty capable of towing nearly any 5th wheel RV out there!!

I personally agree with you on this, but they'll be HDH's/HDT's that will HGHLY disagree because they are behind the times and don't know or understand the capabilities of the new/newer 1 ton Dually's from 2013 and up..


I don't know how they figure "cheaper" for the HDT when MOST of them have purchased ANOTHER car to drive around instead of the semi...cost of the car/insurance/fuel and maintenance.. and then same for the HDT...If I were going to tow a 25-30# 5er, (though, supposedly, my truck could do that.)..I wouldn't buy the 5er... MOST people don't want a semi cab towing 5er's that only have a GVWR of 15K-25K( some HDT's on escapees forum SWEAR YOU HAVE TI HAVE A HDT to tow a 16K GVW 5er:h..

It's so much nicer with a truck you can drive everywhere you want to go, take it to work, haul stuff in the bed, drive it to church or go sight seeing in it and use it in 4 wheel drive and be safe about it when needed.

Some need to wake up and "smell the coffee":B

[tinner12002]

NC Hauler wrote:


..Been driving light duty trucks since 75'.. Never drove MDT or a HDT for a living, but have driven some and even came close to purchasing one some years back..Been in Manufacturing since 1975...and 2 years before that...68-71...You either read wrong or have me confused with someone else:h

I was arguing that you don't need a HDT now a days since from 13 and on up, 1 ton dually's can tow heavy also..up to their recommended towing weights.





Jim

I'm sure our 1 tons are cheaper to insure, plate, fuel, drive, park and repair if needed and I bet more fun to drive in addition to being plenty capable of towing nearly any 5th wheel RV out there!!

[NC_Hauler]

R. Walter wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:
Ben, time fly's...whether we're having fun or not...Spent 12 years with Ingersoll Rand Mining Machinery, 5 and a 1/2 years with Hercules and the last 23 with Continental Automotive, Started as an Engineer, been in R & D with two companies, been a MaintenanceSupervisor.. Machining Supervisor and Assembly Supervisor with this Company...EVERYTHING I've been involved with had STRINGENT guidelines and all erred to the side of Safety first, then Quality. when you're talking about ABS, brake calipers, explosives and underground mining equipment...specs and guidelines, and understanding the manufacturing process is key, and if any of this fails, we;re talking life and death..so I've NEVER taking manufacturers recommendations lightly, nor have I added to, or taken away from them

"If all else fails, read the instructions":B


We going have to meet up sometime, somewhere..believe we could tell some stories...I retire end of July...may happen one day buddy.

Jim

I must have read wrong, but on one of these threads I thought you said you were a truck driver.

..Been driving light duty trucks since 75'.. Never drove MDT or a HDT for a living, but have driven some and even came close to purchasing one some years back..Been in Manufacturing since 1975...and 2 years before that...68-71...You either read wrong or have me confused with someone else:h

I was arguing that you don't need a HDT now a days since from 13 and on up, 1 ton dually's can tow heavy also..up to their recommended towing weights.




Jim

[R__Walter]

NC Hauler wrote:
Ben, time fly's...whether we're having fun or not...Spent 12 years with Ingersoll Rand Mining Machinery, 5 and a 1/2 years with Hercules and the last 23 with Continental Automotive, Started as an Engineer, been in R & D with two companies, been a MaintenanceSupervisor.. Machining Supervisor and Assembly Supervisor with this Company...EVERYTHING I've been involved with had STRINGENT guidelines and all erred to the side of Safety first, then Quality. when you're talking about ABS, brake calipers, explosives and underground mining equipment...specs and guidelines, and understanding the manufacturing process is key, and if any of this fails, we;re talking life and death..so I've NEVER taking manufacturers recommendations lightly, nor have I added to, or taken away from them

"If all else fails, read the instructions":B


We going have to meet up sometime, somewhere..believe we could tell some stories...I retire end of July...may happen one day buddy.

Jim

I must have read wrong, but on one of these threads I thought you said you were a truck driver.

[NC_Hauler]

drittal wrote:
His DRW truck has 10,500 GVWR. Over class IIb, no where near class IV. So how can anybody say it's GVWR is for tax reasons???

Even though his RAWR is ~3,000lbs greater than the SRW variant the GVWR only went up 400lbs.

Then in 2013 Ram upgrades the frame and suddenly GVWR jumps?

How can anybody argue that this truck with a GVWR of 10,500lbs was given that rating to stay in its class III rating when it's closer to IIB than IV?

Ram upgraded frame, upgraded front and rear suspension...GVWR went from 12,300# to 14,000#...all perfectly legal..why the surprise..entire frame was strengthened .

Information put out on 2013 3500 Dually...has gotten even better since.
"Ram's 2013 heavy duty pickups, the Ram 2500 and 3500, have upgraded powertrains, lighting, creature comforts, utility, and electronics. The Ram 3500 shot past Ford and Chevy pickups’ maximum tow rating of 23,100 pounds to a stunning 30,000 pounds, enabled by a new 50,000 pounds-per-square-inch, high-strength steel frame, a stronger transfer case, a higher-load transmission (Aisin AS69RC), larger front drive shafts and U-joints, an upgraded Cummins diesel engine, and other upgrades."

"The 6.7 liter Cummins straight-six turbodiesel has been upgraded, and comes in three different power levels, matched to the transmission. All of them have a substantial torque boost from 2012’s maximum of 600 lb-ft.
All 2013 Ram Heavy Duty diesels benefit from a new cooling system, which uses a high-efficiency fan, dual radiators, dual transmission coolers, and a low-slung charge air cooler to raise heat-rejection capacity by 25%, delivering higher performance and durability.

The Ram Active Air intake system, triggered by the computer, draws cooler air from the front of the vehicle when it senses extreme heat; it also engages at high altitudes for superior throttle response. When conditions are wet, the system pulls air from an under-hood inlet, dry and clear of snow packing.
The 2013 Ram Heavy Duty has a higher Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) and Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) than before, continuing the capacity race with GM and Ford. To support the greater weight, the Ram Heavy Duty's front drive shafts and U-joints are larger, and the Ram 3500 has a 11.8-inch rear axle matched with the high-output diesel engine. This axle boasts a 300-mm hypoid gear set, a 4-pinion helical differential, and a finned aluminum cover for thermal management.

A segment-exclusive front axle disconnecting system disconnects select drivetrain components when possible, allowing a gas mileage increase of up to 1 mile per gallon.
Ram has two new Borg-Warner part-time transfer cases, both of which have a low-range ratio of 2.64 and use a locking differential from front to rear.

The BW 44-46 is an electric shifting part-time transfer case with 2WD, 4WD High, 4WD Low, and Neutral.
The BW 44-47 is a manual shifting transfer case with 2WD, 4WD High, 4WD Low, and Neutral.
Ram 3500 dual-rear-wheel setups are the first in their class to get electronic stability control (ESC).
For 2013, Ram Heavy Duty trucks are using new frames, built with high-strength 50 KSI steel, to increase stiffness, improving noise reduction, ride, and handling. These frames have eight separate cross-members, hydroformed main rails, and fully boxed rear rails.
Wider front frame rails (around one inch per side) allow the front springs to be moved slightly out, to create more positive roll stiffness. The front suspension cross-member is now a two-piece welded component, essentially vacuum formed between the front axle and oil pan. The plated structure's interface to the frame has a weld surface that's twice as large as the previous model. This creates a stiffer, more robust front section, and eliminates the need for reinforcements.

Center frame rail sections are roll-formed, for maintaining strength in less complex longitudinal sections. In the rear portion of the frame, there are fully boxed rear rails and a factory-installed rear axle cross member with provisions for 5th wheel and gooseneck hitches.

The trailer hitch system was upgraded to Class 5 with a 17,000-lb. load capability and 1,800 pounds of tongue weight for use with 2-inch or 2.5-inch receivers.
New front and rear suspensions aid handling and ride. An advanced three-link front suspension on Ram 3500 ensures roll stiffness, contributes to the higher Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), and aids use with heavy front loads, including snow plows. A newly designed Hotchkiss leaf spring rear suspension on the Ram 3500 has better ride, handling, towing, and payload. The hydro-filled cab mounts at the C pillars are 30% larger to cut noise and vibration.

The new reciprocating ball steering gear gives greater durability and control with redesigned steering knuckles, ball joints, and more robust steering linkages delivering an enhanced and precise feel despite the vehicles higher towing and payload capacities.

Four-wheel disc brakes are standard on all 2013 Ram Truck models with dual-piston calipers all around. Front rotors measure 14.17 inches in diameter, while rear rotors are 14.09.


hope all this helped you to understand a little better,

Jim

[drittal]

His DRW truck has 10,500 GVWR. Over class IIb, no where near class IV. So how can anybody say it's GVWR is for tax reasons???

Even though his RAWR is ~3,000lbs greater than the SRW variant the GVWR only went up 400lbs.

Then in 2013 Ram upgrades the frame and suddenly GVWR jumps?

How can anybody argue that this truck with a GVWR of 10,500lbs was given that rating to stay in its class III rating when it's closer to IIB than IV?

[NC_Hauler]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

drittal wrote:
So what tax class is 3500 DRW with a GVWR over 10,000lb trying to stay under?

Ram upgraded their frames in 2013 and lo both GVWR and GCWR grow substantially.

I may not be a rocket scientist but that seems like 1 + 1 = 2

Frame, YOU are the weakest link. Goodbye.

350/3500 and 450 with truck bed are all class 3. They all have GVWR of 14K as soon at they go 14,001 they are Class 4. The fact is the RAM 3500 and Ford 450 could easily be in the Class 4 classification. They keep them low so they can sell them to the AVERAGE folks!

As I have pointed out there is NO way I can be less then 14K if I load my rear axle to it's rated 9,750# and add the front axle factory weight of about 5,300# that right there puts me over 15K.

The reality is a person towing heavy with a RAM 3500 Dually should buy 16K tonnage.

True statements...Same with a 2500 kept under 10K GVWR...The Ram frame isn't the weakest link in a Ram far from it, one of the stoutest frames offered....as with most trucks, it'll be the Rear axle or tires...maybe front and/or rear suspension,,,,Maybe even the tranny.

[Cummins12V98]

drittal wrote:
So what tax class is 3500 DRW with a GVWR over 10,000lb trying to stay under?

Ram upgraded their frames in 2013 and lo both GVWR and GCWR grow substantially.

I may not be a rocket scientist but that seems like 1 + 1 = 2

Frame, YOU are the weakest link. Goodbye.

350/3500 and 450 with truck bed are all class 3. They all have GVWR of 14K as soon at they go 14,001 they are Class 4. The fact is the RAM 3500 and Ford 450 could easily be in the Class 4 classification. They keep them low so they can sell them to the AVERAGE folks!

As I have pointed out there is NO way I can be less then 14K if I load my rear axle to it's rated 9,750# and add the front axle factory weight of about 5,300# that right there puts me over 15K.

The reality is a person towing heavy with a RAM 3500 Dually should buy 16K tonnage.

[drittal]

So what tax class is 3500 DRW with a GVWR over 10,000lb trying to stay under?

Ram upgraded their frames in 2013 and lo both GVWR and GCWR grow substantially.

I may not be a rocket scientist but that seems like 1 + 1 = 2

Frame, YOU are the weakest link. Goodbye.

[NC_Hauler]

Ben, time fly's...whether we're having fun or not...Spent 12 years with Ingersoll Rand Mining Machinery, 5 and a 1/2 years with Hercules and the last 23 with Continental Automotive, Started as an Engineer, been in R & D with two companies, been a MaintenanceSupervisor.. Machining Supervisor and Assembly Supervisor with this Company...EVERYTHING I've been involved with had STRINGENT guidelines and all erred to the side of Safety first, then Quality. when you're talking about ABS, brake calipers, explosives and underground mining equipment...specs and guidelines, and understanding the manufacturing process is key, and if any of this fails, we;re talking life and death..so I've NEVER taking manufacturers recommendations lightly, nor have I added to, or taken away from them

"If all else fails, read the instructions":B


We going have to meet up sometime, somewhere..believe we could tell some stories...I retire end of July...may happen one day buddy.

Jim

[BenK]

Jim,

Know you also know and we both are/were in the OEM design/engineering side...

An example based on your very good comment "...it is what it is, though quite
unpopular on these camping forums..."

Taught my engineers/designers to design it for the "Idiot and gorilla", as if they
can do it wrong, they will. Even the pro's at the industrial and commercial
customer sites...but mainly for the consumer market...

Funny, but so true:

At the usability labs (one way mirrors, sound proof rooms, etc)...one of my
product teams were watching hired folks off the street setup a computing system

"Why are they trying to open the bottom when the markings say this side up, do NOT
open this side, etc????"

Plus many other wack stuff that the manual/docs/read me first/etc...'read me
first' is a sheet/pamphlet on top of the side you are supposed to open first...

My fav packaging engineer (Sally) laughed and said she would take care of that
Packaging, as the box the product ships in. We stopped them and told them to
take a break in the lunch room and the next group were told to get ready to
come into the usability lab...

She went back to her cubicle and changed the robotic packaging system...she changed
the amount of glue the system applied to the bottom of the box flaps. So much
that it became one solid cardboard/glue bottom...

Amazing that some still tried to open the wrong side, but the glue foiled them...

Too bad TV OEMs can't do something similar...

Okay, a quick one since you mentioned defense stuff...

One day my service manager came in and said there is a call waiting for your
from a Navy officer from Charleston SC...

Yelling at me and told him to calm down so I could understand what the heck...

Back then, Polaris Missile Subs came in every few years to have each missile
taken apart and rebuilt 'cuz of the liquid propellant was corrosive

One of the robotic cranes barfed and E-Stopped (Limp mode to folks
here). It had one missile hanging over the Sub and they could NOT
get the crane to reboot.

He had fighter jet warming up at Moffett Field just down the road...to fly one
of our engineers down there to fix it...

Found one of our field techs in NY City that had the correct parts and tools...

Turned out that they did NOT follow the manual recommendations. So the cooling
air intake filters were NOT changed so the panel overheated and tripped one of
the tiny fuses in the sync system. Cooling 5hp blower
that pushed in IIRC...1,600 CFM at something like 4 inches H20

Funny to this day and thank you Jim for bringing that back up for me!

[NC_Hauler]

BenK wrote:
Folks can look at as 'recommendations' too, but note that when my stuff came
back and found that the owner didn't follow my manual/specifications/etc...I'd
not sign off on any warranty the service department sent back to my design teams

Warranty, but okay, take as a recommendation from the OEM...so if you don't follow
that recommendation...then why would the OEM provide warranty?

My industry sector was not automotive, but no different from any market
sector.

It is my design, my specification that cost me tons of money to design
to a specification...and pay for certification by the regulatory agencies
and then field the product.

All that costs me money and expect to make money to stay in business.
Part of that business are warranty costs, plus other overhead expenses

As for the 'read me first', 'manual', etc documentation...it is well
established in the courts that folks generally do NOT read them. OEMs
can NOT force them to read them, nor follow them...so the courts just
look at 'good faith' that all that stuff is in the product...so if
you toss them all without reading them, or understanding them...is is
okay with the courts and you will not get warranty/liability/etc

Ben, I read them:B..but I'm OCD, and I'm a "spec man"...been one for a very long time., AND being an engineer and doing some R & D, see specs and "manufacturers recommendations", based on a whole lot of DATA, TESTS, GRAPHS, and other component engineering specs...believe you know all this and more..thus the reason I use "manufacturers weights and specs", because I know what went into a whole lot of research just to get tires, brake calipers, ABS manufactured where I am now and in WVa with Ingersoll Rand Continuous miners and roof bolters that I help manufacture. Even Radford Army Ammunition Plant run by Hercules where we manufactured Nitro-glycerin, TNT, solid fuel propellents and wadding for big guns on us Navy destroyers...red tape and specs like you wouldn't believe. Lived the specs and use them because I understand and it's the safest thing to do....it is what it is, though quite unpopular on these camping forums.

Jim