Reserve America requires SS number?

[mleekamp]

Just spent an hour on reserve america, where I've booked camp sites for several years. It was not a fake site as I could look around at campsites, etc. I went to book and it said I am required to put in an SS number as part of a Federal code to catch deadbeat parents for unpaid child support....THAT IS NOT ME!

Point is, I immediately closed the page. Is this normal? I would never give an SS number to reserve america. What gives?

[cekkk]

Msmith, I thought of that, as it's not at all uncommon. I just saw that situation as so far removed from this case as to not being worth mention. I have no objection to a contractor having my medical information in order to handle my Medicare claims. I do not believe an RV park should be asked to gather my Medicare info, which includes my SS number, so as to expedite care in case I fall into their swimming pool.

It seems to me there is a substantial legal difference between contracting out a duty and delegating that duty to various and sundry private parties.

Let me acknowledge, a left coast viewpoint may differ from one held on top of a 9000' hill in this flyover state, and cease this exchange from my end, as it's getting a tad goofy. :B

[monkey44]

Not offense to you as a LEO, but QUOTE: "The law makers are usually pretty smart in catching these loopholes."

I'd find this one hard to swallow - the reason lawmakers have to keep making laws or changing laws is exactly because they don't always get it right the first time, or the second time. And why we have "Constitutional Law" as a protector from those that get it wrong - just because we make a law does not mean its specific enough, used as intended, nor constitutional. That evaluation often comes after the fact.

And, not intending this to become political, only that law-makers are like everyone else, and as 'adjustable' as the rest of us, and not infallible.

[msmith1199]

So in your opinion, because you are giving the info to a commercial company who is in turn giving it to a government agency that would make a difference in the law? You may be right, but I would tend to doubt it. The law makers are usually pretty smart in catching these loopholes. In California DMV contracts with private companies to handle some of their transactions. I'm going to guess you couldn't give false info to those private companies and get around the laws prohibiting giving false info directly to DMV.

[cekkk]

msmith1199 wrote:
I'm not arguing politics, just the law.

As was I. Apples and oranges.

The aside was just that, an aside. Probably inappropriate for this forum.

[msmith1199]

Bumpyroad wrote:
I think that if my SS# ended in 2 and I accidentally typed in 3, I doubt that any regulatory body could/would consider my accident to amount to a felony. it would be extremely difficult for them to prove this.
bumpy

You're right, unless of course you were to admit your intentions on an Internet forum that is open to the public. Otherwise how else would the prosecutor prove your intent? Good thing nobody has confessed on here that they intend to do this. 🙂

[msmith1199]

I'm not arguing politics, just the law.

[Bumpyroad]

I think that if my SS# ended in 2 and I accidentally typed in 3, I doubt that any regulatory body could/would consider my accident to amount to a felony. it would be extremely difficult for them to prove this.
bumpy

[cekkk]

msmith1199 wrote:

cekkk wrote:
I'm not so sure giving a bogus number is a crime if there is no intent to defraud. We're told to protect it.

...The Federal mandate Kansas is using to justify this law is the same Federal law that requires you to provide a social security number to get a drivers license. What do you think would happen if you gave a false SSN to DMV?

Apples and oranges. There is no commercial third-party recipient involved in the DMV situation.

As an aside, maybe we should have a question that seeks to break down by age how people feel about governments' endless involvements in our lives. I'm guessing those who were living before it became a political crime, if not an actual crime, to call someone a name* have a whole different outlook from the younger folks who have been schooled that our safety and "feelings" are more important than freedom.
* The official birth of political correctness: The water buffalo incident.

[msmith1199]

cekkk wrote:
I'm not so sure giving a bogus number is a crime if there is no intent to defraud. We're told to protect it.

You are thinking of the identity theft statutes and you are correct in that most of those have as a required element the intent to defraud. However, I would be willing to bet that the Kansas law that requires them to collect this information also requires you to provide the correct information. The Federal mandate Kansas is using to justify this law is the same Federal law that requires you to provide a social security number to get a drivers license. What do you think would happen if you gave a false SSN to DMV?

[qtla9111]

cekkk wrote:

"...Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a Jew..." Truly, we are lost. 😞

How quickly people forget or think it "can't happen to me". That's why I have no relatives on my dad's side.

These things happen little by little and we brush them off as minor offenses. Then one day, like in Hungaria, people wake up and find their lives have changed.

[Dutch_12078]

cekkk wrote:

My SS card was issued to me in 1952 as a 9-year-old selling Coke at a stock car track. I still have it. On the card is the warning: Not To Be Used For Identification. Don't know if that's still the case.

Q21: When did Social Security cards bear the legend "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION"?

A: The first Social Security cards were issued starting in 1936, they did not have this legend. Beginning with the sixth design version of the card, issued starting in 1946, SSA added a legend to the bottom of the card reading "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY PURPOSES -- NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION." This legend was removed as part of the design changes for the 18th version of the card, issued beginning in 1972. The legend has not been on any new cards issued since 1972.

www.ssa.gov/history

[Dutch_12078]

msmith1199 wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:
Apparently all of you folks advocating giving them a bogus SSN haven't read the entire thread... Way back on page one the OP posted this follow-up: "I did try bogus numbers...NO GO."

By bogus number, he probably entered a number that is an invalid SSN. Their computer system likely has a way to determine which numbers have been issued and which have not. If you transpose the last two numbers on your own SSN you are likely entering a valid number, but it just belongs to somebody else. And as has already been mentioned, using somebody else's social security number like this would be a crime. If it were me, I just wouldn't use the system and wouldn't give them a social security number before I'd commit a crime just to get around it.

Obviously, without more info from the OP, neither one of us knows what numbers he entered. There is an online SSN verification system that matches the numbers with names, etc., available to businesses and agencies with the proper "need to know" though, and RA could very well be tied into it.

[cekkk]

I'm not so sure giving a bogus number is a crime if there is no intent to defraud. We're told to protect it. So now we have to give it to some stranger at a campground? I don't think so.

My SS card was issued to me in 1952 as a 9-year-old selling Coke at a stock car track. I still have it. On the card is the warning: Not To Be Used For Identification. Don't know if that's still the case.

Of course, that was before the Feds floated the idea of a national id card 30 or so years ago. The uproar was such that they simply and quietly around 1986 began requiring children be issued SS numbers to be taken as deductions, that soon evolved to issuing them at birth and, Voila! we all have national id numbers!

We are constantly reminded to protect our SS numbers. So Kansas wants me to give my information to some mope at an RV park? If this is okay with you, then send me your number and I'll use it.

Maybe Holder was right, that we're a nation of cowards.

[msmith1199]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
Apparently all of you folks advocating giving them a bogus SSN haven't read the entire thread... Way back on page one the OP posted this follow-up: "I did try bogus numbers...NO GO."

By bogus number, he probably entered a number that is an invalid SSN. Their computer system likely has a way to determine which numbers have been issued and which have not. If you transpose the last two numbers on your own SSN you are likely entering a valid number, but it just belongs to somebody else. And as has already been mentioned, using somebody else's social security number like this would be a crime. If it were me, I just wouldn't use the system and wouldn't give them a social security number before I'd commit a crime just to get around it.