Typical RV sales behavior

[bacil]

OK, i know this has been mentioned before but i need to put this to my ow perspective and would like to know your opinions.

As i mentioned elsewhere i am currently in Europe sailing and finishing some deals here. So i chose to communicate with some RV dealerships over the email and told them upfront what our plans are.

I have asked 3 of them for details of an RV in this order

1. MHSRV for HR Vacationer 32A - i got response first day, i got their draft of contract and build sheet of the unit. Then asked for several details for which i have never heard back (even though i even agreed to $2k deposit if i like the answers, pending personal visit and review of the unit). This was last Friday

2. RVcountry for HR Navigator XE 35M - i got one response with build sheet, none of my other questions was answered and no response ever since. This was on Monday

3. i94RV for HR Vacationer 32A - one generic answer with link to their website with the pictures (same as on RVtrader) never got any other response back. This was week ago today.

Is this normal ? are they not interested in my business ?

Again from my experience when we have someone interested in purchasing yacht, we would jump through the hoops to answer all their questions and more.

SO it seems really odd behavior from sales people.

[bacil]

qtla9111 wrote:
You're lucky to get a response. On used units, I have never received a response from any dealer. These requests were done on RvTrader using their mail request system.

Thats what i started with, never got any so i went to their respective websites and then got some minimal response. I really find it discouraging.

If they cant be bothered to answer me when i want to buy what is going to happen if i get any after sales request.

[qtla9111]

You're lucky to get a response. On used units, I have never received a response from any dealer. These requests were done on RvTrader using their mail request system.

[bacil]

valhalla360 wrote:


Well there's your problem. You apparently work at the "unicorn" of boat dealers because we have friends both in the USA and Europe who bought new (similar level boats to what you mention) and did not experience anything like what you describe.

It's certainly not an expectation in a standard production RV that the dealer would go over everything, test drive and it's a problem free hand over.

Thats probably because i own that broker so i make all my people do what i expect. But never occurred to me that we are that different to be the unicorn.

Anyway the CAR LOT comparison is probably best to set my expectations.

[valhalla360]

bacil wrote:
....

I hope this is a joke. I know several people who have bought both RV and Boats new. The idea that either is QA'd 3 times and everything works right from day 1 just doesn't happen.

Honestly i deal with European brands Bavara/Beneteau, Lagoon/Nautitech and each of them have pretty tough QA. Plus there is our own QA on the end prior calling customer onboard and handing over the boat.

I would not sell new yacht without spending at least 5 hrs sailing and testing it prior customer delivery. To make sure all the issues are resolved. In our history we had everything leak in the boat from factory (someone used too long screw when putting up aft protector) that showed only when motoring over 5kt and aft dipped, we had not tied up properly awning, some furniture missing screws, electronic not connected etc. but that's why we as the dealer make sure before even taking customer on board that we make sure its sorted.

Factory always do signup on the configs, e.g. i can follow up any of my ordered boats through whole process from hull infusion to complete and can take customer to have a look at that.

Now i was assuming it is similar with the RV, it being same "luxury" product as yacht and similarly priced (the 35' gas is 120k vs. 38' sailor is 140k) and therefore i also assumed dealers will have same approach, to make sure that customers spending this sort of cash would receive the gods in as good shape as possible.

But i think your last comparison to CAR LOT is probably best explanation i get 🙂 so i will have to approach it from that point of view 🙂

Well there's your problem. You apparently work at the "unicorn" of boat dealers because we have friends both in the USA and Europe who bought new (similar level boats to what you mention) and did not experience anything like what you describe.

It's certainly not an expectation in a standard production RV that the dealer would go over everything, test drive and it's a problem free hand over.

[bacil]

....

I hope this is a joke. I know several people who have bought both RV and Boats new. The idea that either is QA'd 3 times and everything works right from day 1 just doesn't happen.

Honestly i deal with European brands Bavara/Beneteau, Lagoon/Nautitech and each of them have pretty tough QA. Plus there is our own QA on the end prior calling customer onboard and handing over the boat.

I would not sell new yacht without spending at least 5 hrs sailing and testing it prior customer delivery. To make sure all the issues are resolved. In our history we had everything leak in the boat from factory (someone used too long screw when putting up aft protector) that showed only when motoring over 5kt and aft dipped, we had not tied up properly awning, some furniture missing screws, electronic not connected etc. but that's why we as the dealer make sure before even taking customer on board that we make sure its sorted.

Factory always do signup on the configs, e.g. i can follow up any of my ordered boats through whole process from hull infusion to complete and can take customer to have a look at that.

Now i was assuming it is similar with the RV, it being same "luxury" product as yacht and similarly priced (the 35' gas is 120k vs. 38' sailor is 140k) and therefore i also assumed dealers will have same approach, to make sure that customers spending this sort of cash would receive the gods in as good shape as possible.

But i think your last comparison to CAR LOT is probably best explanation i get 🙂 so i will have to approach it from that point of view 🙂

[valhalla360]

bacil wrote:

True, that volume in the sales buys lots of forgiveness, but still you shouldn't just ignore customer. If you the high seller you probably can get someone else (say assistant) send an email saying sorry i am busy now, but will get back to you in day or two.

Sounds good in theory but in reality a lot easier to just conveniently forget to respond to emails that aren't likely to result in a sale.

You are looking at it from the point of view that you know you are serious. They are looking at it from the point of view 99% chance it never turns into a sale. (plus most won't have assistants)

Thanks for the insight to the order, from what you sail i gather that it not like with boats, where everything thats not dealer installable comes from factory and is QA'd at least 3 times, to make sure that the order is correct and delivered correctly.

I hope this is a joke. I know several people who have bought both RV and Boats new. The idea that either is QA'd 3 times and everything works right from day 1 just doesn't happen.

In fact, that's one of the biggest knocks against buying new. For both RV & boats, you often lose a big part of the first season getting everything that is wrong fixed.

And last question, or rather comment. You suggest to look fo unit thats somewhere in stock that has most of what we want so you would sacrifice something instead of ordering ? For example i have found one unit that has everything except double-glazing would you go for that ?

No, if you really want something specific, go ahead and special order but unless you are in the real high end market, don't expect them to fall all over themselves to do that if they have something close on the lot. You likely won't get as deep of a discount and it likely will be much more of a hassle.

Double glazing would be expensive to retrofit but a lot of things can be added after the fact. Depends what the trailer on the lot is missing. (adding slideout covers for example is fairly straight forward after the fact). You would have to decide what it is you really want and how hard it is to retrofit.

It's a lot more like going down to a new car dealer. They will special order if you ask but would prefer the much easier deal of selling off the lot.

[bacil]

valhalla360 wrote:

bacil wrote:

Again boat example comes to mind, small entry yachts are about the same price. We normally take $5k deposit on the day they say yes and we draft contract and reserve the delivery date in factory, then 30% of price due when factory confirms the delivery and accepts the config and reminder 30 days before the delivery date. (usually at escrow account until inspection is done and customer takes delivery).

Is it same or similar with RV ?

No it is not similar with the exception of a small percentage of high end RV's that are custom ordered. If you are talking about a $500k diesel pusher, yeah, it's a lot more like buying a new boat.

The vast majority of new RV sales are bought off the RV lot inventory. Factory order sales are the exception rather than the rule.

Generally, you come in find what you like (they might check nearby dealers for stock if there is something special you want), once you find it, you put down a deposit and either that day or within a week, you make full payment and drive away.

OK, one would have thought that similar priced items would have similar process.

[bacil]

valhalla360 wrote:

bacil wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Over on the cruiser forum you get the exact same complaints about brokers not responding on boats. Yeah, it's pretty normal when you start asking detailed questions.

Thats good news 🙂 maybe we have chance to grab bit of market with the customer approach i am pushing for ;-))))). I would terminate my sales person if he/she wouldn't respond on sales request and didn't follow through with lead until its either loss or win. 🙂

valhalla360 wrote:

Given the email/overseas issue that you started with, my bet is they are focused on the guy sitting right in front of them ready to sign paperwork. That beats out an offer to put down a deposit...if you like their response. The guy sitting in front of them waving $100 bills gets first attention.

I understand that it is a issue, but again i don't need their demo unit i am interested in given config so i believe they have some on order (like we have boats) and have some delivery dates that they can work with. And i have been clear upfront that we can be flexible and have enough time to work all this out.

Which actually bings another questions, what are the delivery dates on new orders ? Is it like with Bavarias 3-8 months delivery (own config) ? or is it more like with Lagoon with 1 - 2 years wait ?

It sounds good to say you would fire a salesman but reality is if he has lots of sales...that forgives a lot of sins. Good salesmen learn to ignore low percentage customers and focus on high percentage customers. As others have said, your interest comes across a lot like a scam (even though it isn't), so if they are done with all their other work and bored, they might respond but don't expect a lot of attention.

The old "the customer is always right" is dead wrong if they aren't generating a profit. In that case, the smart business will fire the customer not the sales staff.

Also, custom ordering actually works against you. If they sell off the lot, customer signs the paperwork and drives away. If they custom order, the salesman has to shepard the process until it arrives. Customer wants to change something after they put in the order, the order arrives with the wrong options, there were delays and now the customer is angry, it's really a bigger pain in the rear for them unless they really hit the profit margin out of the park.

True, that volume in the sales buys lots of forgiveness, but still you shouldn't just ignore customer. If you the high seller you probably can get someone else (say assistant) send an email saying sorry i am busy now, but will get back to you in day or two.

Thanks for the insight to the order, from what you sail i gather that it not like with boats, where everything thats not dealer installable comes from factory and is QA'd at least 3 times, to make sure that the order is correct and delivered correctly.

And last question, or rather comment. You suggest to look fo unit thats somewhere in stock that has most of what we want so you would sacrifice something instead of ordering ? For example i have found one unit that has everything except double-glazing would you go for that ?

[valhalla360]

bacil wrote:

Again boat example comes to mind, small entry yachts are about the same price. We normally take $5k deposit on the day they say yes and we draft contract and reserve the delivery date in factory, then 30% of price due when factory confirms the delivery and accepts the config and reminder 30 days before the delivery date. (usually at escrow account until inspection is done and customer takes delivery).

Is it same or similar with RV ?

No it is not similar with the exception of a small percentage of high end RV's that are custom ordered. If you are talking about a $500k diesel pusher, yeah, it's a lot more like buying a new boat.

The vast majority of new RV sales are bought off the RV lot inventory. Factory order sales are the exception rather than the rule.

Generally, you come in find what you like (they might check nearby dealers for stock if there is something special you want), once you find it, you put down a deposit and either that day or within a week, you make full payment and drive away.

[valhalla360]

bacil wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Over on the cruiser forum you get the exact same complaints about brokers not responding on boats. Yeah, it's pretty normal when you start asking detailed questions.

Thats good news 🙂 maybe we have chance to grab bit of market with the customer approach i am pushing for ;-))))). I would terminate my sales person if he/she wouldn't respond on sales request and didn't follow through with lead until its either loss or win. 🙂

valhalla360 wrote:

Given the email/overseas issue that you started with, my bet is they are focused on the guy sitting right in front of them ready to sign paperwork. That beats out an offer to put down a deposit...if you like their response. The guy sitting in front of them waving $100 bills gets first attention.

I understand that it is a issue, but again i don't need their demo unit i am interested in given config so i believe they have some on order (like we have boats) and have some delivery dates that they can work with. And i have been clear upfront that we can be flexible and have enough time to work all this out.

Which actually bings another questions, what are the delivery dates on new orders ? Is it like with Bavarias 3-8 months delivery (own config) ? or is it more like with Lagoon with 1 - 2 years wait ?

It sounds good to say you would fire a salesman but reality is if he has lots of sales...that forgives a lot of sins. Good salesmen learn to ignore low percentage customers and focus on high percentage customers. As others have said, your interest comes across a lot like a scam (even though it isn't), so if they are done with all their other work and bored, they might respond but don't expect a lot of attention.

The old "the customer is always right" is dead wrong if they aren't generating a profit. In that case, the smart business will fire the customer not the sales staff.

Also, custom ordering actually works against you. If they sell off the lot, customer signs the paperwork and drives away. If they custom order, the salesman has to shepard the process until it arrives. Customer wants to change something after they put in the order, the order arrives with the wrong options, there were delays and now the customer is angry, it's really a bigger pain in the rear for them unless they really hit the profit margin out of the park.

[bacil]

bacil wrote:

kerrlakeRoo wrote:

bacil wrote:

kerrlakeRoo wrote:

bacil wrote:
My questions weren't even technical. I asked for after sales services detail, warranty document and one technical bout the type of batteries and charger used in the rigs. So at least two of these they should have readily available as they have to deal with this on daily basis.

To a large extent salesmen don't deal with anything on a daily basis other than getting your signature. You would likely be shocked how many dont own, and never have owned one of what they sell.
The Holiday Rambler website does have the owners manuals available for download at the bottom of their homepage, and it does cover many questions. Specific brands of batteries, and even the converters are likely subject to change with them as with any other manufacturer, whoever offers the best deal on appliances etc likely gets the business.

I have already downloaded all the manuals, brochures, specs, diagrams i can find. These were just concrete questions for those specific units, something i can't get anywhere else - technical ones.

But the warranties etc. i bet everyone is asking for that when they buy a new RV. so they should have all the docs available. I know we have all the boatbuilders warranties even drafts for most common insurance policies that we show to customers how to insure their new yachts (we don't broker insurance)

Did you try to contact James that I mentioned earlier? I am also dealing with him on a new unit, but in person. I had liked him better than most I have run into, and he seemed willing to answer any questions. I would like to know if you tried to contact him on this and got the cold shoulder from his dealership also.

Yes i have not long ago, but they don't have any of the models in stock so i will wait for their response, lets give them at least a day and i will let you know.

So James appears to comunicate, we have scheduled call for this morning his time. 🙂 Thanks for advise 🙂

[bacil]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

bacil wrote:
My questions weren't even technical. I asked for after sales services detail, warranty document and one technical bout the type of batteries and charger used in the rigs. So at least two of these they should have readily available as they have to deal with this on daily basis.

The warranty document is included in the manuals in this LINK.

Like most other manufacturers that's all there is and the unit will come with all the little booklets for the warranty on every single component which are all warranted by their manufacturer.

As far as service details, It's in them also. The same typical industry BS. Basically return it to the "selling dealer". That's the politically correct way of saying most "non selling" dealers at best will give you an appointment weeks or months down the road at the end of the line, or at worst just tell to to get bent.


I could find nothing on the battery or charger.

Thanks, i've got these. 🙂 appreciate your help.

[Ralph_Cramden]

bacil wrote:
My questions weren't even technical. I asked for after sales services detail, warranty document and one technical bout the type of batteries and charger used in the rigs. So at least two of these they should have readily available as they have to deal with this on daily basis.

The warranty document is included in the manuals in this LINK.

Like most other manufacturers that's all there is and the unit will come with all the little booklets for the warranty on every single component which are all warranted by their manufacturer.

As far as service details, It's in them also. The same typical industry BS. Basically return it to the "selling dealer". That's the politically correct way of saying most "non selling" dealers at best will give you an appointment weeks or months down the road at the end of the line, or at worst just tell to to get bent.


I could find nothing on the battery or charger.

[bacil]

azdryheat wrote:

bacil wrote:

minnow wrote:
RV sales are at a record pace. Dealerships are selling plenty of RV's to customers that walk in their doors. They don't need to sell an RV to someone via correspondence and will not make the effort to answer questions. Frankly, they don't need your business.

Thanks, that confirms what i thought. And i will find dealership that does want my business :-). Although i would not want salesperson with this mind set working for me 🙂

The salesperson does not work FOR you.

Obviously, what i mean is that i would not want these guys working for me in my line of work <- read selling my services, and boats