Will Air bags make a big difference?

[GaryS1953]

So we've had a 21'5th wheel for 16 years, and love it, but it's getting long in the tooth, and it's a little small, so we bought a 2012 Shasta Revere BH, 27', 31' with the hitch. We took it on our first trip this past week and had a real problem with the truck bucking up and down and also swaying. It's 5777 dry weight, and our Chevy is a half-ton, rated up to 9400 lbs. Anyway, we made it to our destination, but I felt so uncomfortable driving it do the swaying and shaking. The camper came with an old equalizing hitch, but not sway bars, the owner said he had never felt he needed them. I called a local hitch place and had them install a Curt hitch with integrated sway control, and thought we were all set. It DID help a little with the sway but didn't seem to help much with the bucking. Any little bump we went over the truck bucked up and down and, and the steering wheel felt like the truck was over loaded. I called the hitch dealer back and he said I probably need to have airbags or something else done to strengthen the suspension. My question, would that make a huge difference? My wife says she can't ride in this truck if we can't solve this problem as the bucking and vibration makes her sick. Mind you, we've been across country several times with the 5th wheel. We had occasional bucking with that, but only when we went over severe bumps like a bad bridge transit for example. I've got $700 invested in the hitch, with little to show for it, and the airbag would cost about $1000. Well worth it, if it works, but not if it only makes a little difference. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Grit_dog]

And before you or someone takes offense to ^, assuming you have a newer half ton with somewhere between an 8-12k tow rating, you DONT need a 3/4 ton, you just need to do a little proper prep work to your truck to handle the tongue weight ….maybe…since you haven’t answered that question either.

[Grit_dog]

GaryS1953 wrote:

KD4UPL wrote:
Do you have P or LT tires in the truck? 35 pounds of air can't be enough. You should have LT tires inflated to I'd guess 40 to 50 psi depending on weight.
You are very likely over your trucks GVWR. You are quite likely over your tire weights if the are P tires.

I have P tires, and you are right, and actually I should have a 3/4 ton truck, but that just isn't in the cards : ). Beginning to think I just need to sell this camper and go back to something smaller.

Well Gary, idk how difficult your life is, but I’mma have to say you sound pretty soft in this last statement….
Not even sure why you posted this if you refuse to answer questions or provide info to help with what seems to be now a go/no go decision in your mind.
Best of luck to you and as a reminder, you have to be at least slight knowledgeable or at least helpful in providing info when you’re relying on others to fix your problem.

[JRscooby]

KD4UPL wrote:
h. You should have LT tires inflated to I'd guess 40 to 50 psi depending on weight.
You are very likely over your trucks GVWR. You are quite likely over your tire weights if the are P tires.

Yes, LT tires truck will stiffen the ride, even MT.
As to the more air in tires; Bet if you checked the inflation tables you would find the PSI truck manufacturer puts on the post is what is needed to carry the weight rating manufacturer puts on axle.
(For years, part of check trailer tire routine was bump rear tires of TV up about 15%, even after Cat told me I was under rating on all axles. 1 trip I had wife check tires while I was doing something else with TV. Short tow, but drove better. Routine changed.)

GaryS1953 wrote:

KD4UPL wrote:
Do you have P or LT tires in the truck? 35 pounds of air can't be enough. You should have LT tires inflated to I'd guess 40 to 50 psi depending on weight.
You are very likely over your trucks GVWR. You are quite likely over your tire weights if the are P tires.

I have P tires, and you are right, and actually I should have a 3/4 ton truck, but that just isn't in the cards : ). Beginning to think I just need to sell this camper and go back to something smaller.

Will you break even selling the trailer to buy smaller? Why not weigh your rig, compare numbers to ratings, and make adjustments from there? If you can't get right on tire ratings, need to make major changes, (Pair of LT tires for rear of TV likely would solve that issue) but there is some play in other numbers. There are decisions that can be made to reduce total weight, and to some extent where the weight is carried.
The Cat might tell you your fat on trailer tires. (Are they aired to max on sidewall? Flex there can cause bad handling)
Another thing you should do is pay real close attention to driving TV without trailer. Does it track real good? Any bad manners MT get worse with a load. TW of trailer is a load placed in bad part of vehicle. Lowering the rear reduces caster of front. Lifting the front when unload can change it too. Together, not a lot of change, but maybe enough to put it out of spec.
The bottom line is without a trip to Cat you're using your thumb for a anvil. Getting little done, and hurting yourself while doing it.

[1320Fastback]

Air bags and E rated truck tires might solve your issue.

[GaryS1953]

KD4UPL wrote:
Do you have P or LT tires in the truck? 35 pounds of air can't be enough. You should have LT tires inflated to I'd guess 40 to 50 psi depending on weight.
You are very likely over your trucks GVWR. You are quite likely over your tire weights if the are P tires.

I have P tires, and you are right, and actually I should have a 3/4 ton truck, but that just isn't in the cards : ). Beginning to think I just need to sell this camper and go back to something smaller.

[rjstractor]

GaryS1953 wrote:

dustminer wrote:
What is the payload capacity of said truck?

Trailer Specs

Hitch Weight 663 lbs
GVWR 9463 lbs
Dry Weight 5777 lbs
Cargo Capacity 3212 lbs

Vehicle Specs

4WD:
Double Cab, 5.8 V8
9600 lbs / 4354 kgs – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

None of the cited numbers have anything to do with truck payload. The 9600 lbs listed under your truck doesn't mean much- maybe it's your towing capacity?

You have a 1500 series truck, which when towing a trailer of that size and weight, it will tend to feel squishy since the rear suspension is designed more for ride quality than being able to handle heavy weights. Air bags will help, as will LT rated tires inflated to the correct pressure.

[KD4UPL]

Do you have P or LT tires in the truck? 35 pounds of air can't be enough. You should have LT tires inflated to I'd guess 40 to 50 psi depending on weight.
You are very likely over your trucks GVWR. You are quite likely over your tire weights if the are P tires.

[valhalla360]

GaryS1953 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Empty weight is irrelevant and payload often runs out before tow rating.

Swing by a CAT scale and find out what the real weights are (loaded as if you are going on a trip). Take 3 measurements (after the first, you can do re-weighs for like $3, so probably $20-25 total).
- Fully hooked up with the WDH connected.
- Hooked up but disconnect the WDH bars.
- Just the truck.

With this info, you can determine the actual weight of the trailer and the actual hitch weight. Then you can determine the hitch weight and if the truck is overloaded.

On the door of the truck are stickers that provide overall and per axle payload ratings.

It might be that the trucks rear suspension is overloaded or it could be the opposite and the hitch weight is too low. If it's too low, airbags won't help.

I may get to a cat scale, but in the meantime could you elaborate? What is meant by "hitch weight is too low"? Thanks!

Hitch weight should be minimum 10%. Ideally between 12-15% (more is actually better but unlikely your truck could handle it).

Assuming you are at 8000lb loaded (guess based on empty weight plus a couple thousand in cargo, which is very realistic when you figure water, propane, batteries, etc...). You should be looking at around 1000-1200lb hitch weight. Add in say 4 people plus firewood, cooler etc... in the truck. All that counts against payload. You could easily have 2000lb on the truck and most half tons have around 1500lb payload (it can vary drastically). That would leave you over payload and with the squishy suspension on lighter duty 1/2 ton trucks, it can feel squirrely when driving. Airbags can help with the ride if you are overloaded but you are still overloaded, so it's masking the issue.

Alternatively, if you are light on hitch weight say 8%, even if the truck is fine, the trailer can get squirrely. Airbags won't help with this issue.

As previously mentioned, factory empty weights are irrelevant. They don't include any gear you put in the trailer, water, propane, batteries, any aftermarket bolt on items, etc..., so reality is you will never tow at empty weights.

[BarabooBob]

Using air bags to lift the rear does not change how much weight is on the front axle. I weighed my truck axles when the truck was empty and when hooked up to the camper. You don't want the front axle to get light because driving will be like wrestling a snake.

[GaryS1953]

Bionic Man wrote:

GaryS1953 wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

GaryS1953 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Not enough hitch weight? That is typical of the issues you mentioned in my experience.

Marty

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Here are the specs for the trailer:


Trailer Specs

Hitch Weight 663 lbs
GVWR 9463 lbs
Dry Weight 5777 lbs
Cargo Capacity 3212 lbs

Vehicle Specs

4WD:
Double Cab, 5.8 V8
9600 lbs / 4354 kgs – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

Thanks!

Where are you getting these values from? If you have less than 700 pounds of tongue weight on a nearly 10,000 pound trailer, that could cause your issues.

Got the trailer specs from Google, and the truck specs from the GM build sheet for my vehicle. The trailer weight is 5777, but I probably have around 2000 lbs cargo on it.

First, I wouldn’t trust google for the weights. You really should find a CAT scale and see what weights you really have, total, and tongue weight.

2000 pounds is a lot of cargo to have on board. I’m assuming that is an estimate as well, but if you have that much weight somehow behind the rear axle it will unload the tongue weight of the trailer and could cause your problems.

That makes good sense. I'll try to get that done in the next couple days and get back to the board. Thanks very much!

[Bionic_Man]

GaryS1953 wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

GaryS1953 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Not enough hitch weight? That is typical of the issues you mentioned in my experience.

Marty

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Here are the specs for the trailer:


Trailer Specs

Hitch Weight 663 lbs
GVWR 9463 lbs
Dry Weight 5777 lbs
Cargo Capacity 3212 lbs

Vehicle Specs

4WD:
Double Cab, 5.8 V8
9600 lbs / 4354 kgs – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

Thanks!

Where are you getting these values from? If you have less than 700 pounds of tongue weight on a nearly 10,000 pound trailer, that could cause your issues.

Got the trailer specs from Google, and the truck specs from the GM build sheet for my vehicle. The trailer weight is 5777, but I probably have around 2000 lbs cargo on it.

First, I wouldn’t trust google for the weights. You really should find a CAT scale and see what weights you really have, total, and tongue weight.

2000 pounds is a lot of cargo to have on board. I’m assuming that is an estimate as well, but if you have that much weight somehow behind the rear axle it will unload the tongue weight of the trailer and could cause your problems.

[GaryS1953]

Bionic Man wrote:

GaryS1953 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Not enough hitch weight? That is typical of the issues you mentioned in my experience.

Marty

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Here are the specs for the trailer:


Trailer Specs

Hitch Weight 663 lbs
GVWR 9463 lbs
Dry Weight 5777 lbs
Cargo Capacity 3212 lbs

Vehicle Specs

4WD:
Double Cab, 5.8 V8
9600 lbs / 4354 kgs – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

Thanks!

Where are you getting these values from? If you have less than 700 pounds of tongue weight on a nearly 10,000 pound trailer, that could cause your issues.

Got the trailer specs from Google, and the truck specs from the GM build sheet for my vehicle. The trailer weight is 5777, but I probably have around 2000 lbs cargo on it.

[GaryS1953]

dustminer wrote:
What is the payload capacity of said truck?

Trailer Specs

Hitch Weight 663 lbs
GVWR 9463 lbs
Dry Weight 5777 lbs
Cargo Capacity 3212 lbs

Vehicle Specs

4WD:
Double Cab, 5.8 V8
9600 lbs / 4354 kgs – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

[Bionic_Man]

GaryS1953 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Not enough hitch weight? That is typical of the issues you mentioned in my experience.

Marty

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Here are the specs for the trailer:


Trailer Specs

Hitch Weight 663 lbs
GVWR 9463 lbs
Dry Weight 5777 lbs
Cargo Capacity 3212 lbs

Vehicle Specs

4WD:
Double Cab, 5.8 V8
9600 lbs / 4354 kgs – 5.3L (3.42 axle)

Thanks!

Where are you getting these values from? If you have less than 700 pounds of tongue weight on a nearly 10,000 pound trailer, that could cause your issues.

[dustminer]

What is the payload capacity of said truck?