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Dog pooping in crate

daverich
Explorer
Explorer
Good evening. I am going to post this tonight and then go to bed. I will check the answers tomorrow. Thanks in advance.

We got our dog from the Humane Society in Kerrville, Texas last year this time. She was a four year old Shih Tzu. When we got her she was very well potty trained. Whoopee.

We started out with a crate and when we were away or went to bed she went in the crate. She never had accidents in the crate or in the house.

I think we messed up. We started letting her sleep with us and not be in her crate when we left. All was well for seven or eights months. Then one day she pooped in the motor home while we were gone. We watched her closely and no problems until the next time we left her alone for less than two hours. She pooped again.

Now we have started putting her in the crate when we leave and she is doing it in the crate. We are not angry with her because we think we have caused it. How do we fix the problem?

She is a wonderful little girl and at least she messes in the crate and not the motor home.

Thanks for your replies.

By the way, we have not yelled or screamed at her. I pointed at it and said bad girl and that was it.
24 REPLIES 24

silvercorvette
Explorer
Explorer
doxiemom11 wrote:
They have what are called belly bands that many rescues use on "markers". It's an elastic wider band that fits over their genitals and around their body. No, they can't mark with them on. Just remember to take them off so they can go on a regular basis outside. Making them wait too many hours can lead to bladder stones which is another issue with frequent urination and unable to hold it.

Both my dogs tell me when they want to go outside. The female gives a little bark and the male gives a little whimper. They sell a product to put on dogs that are afraid of thunder, it wraparound the belly with a velcro strap that goes around the neck. I put a large human baby diaper on the dog then use the thunder garment to secure the diaper, then I use a bandage similar to an ace bandage only it is more durable and lasts longer than an ace bandage to hold everything into place. I haven't had to use this contraption in many months. I can guarantee one thing and that is no matter how tired I am or even if it is 4 AM and I am sound asleep all comfortable in bed and don't want to get up, I always let my dogs out when they ask me to. There have been time they have ticked me off because I just let them outside 10 or 15 minutes ago and they ask to go out again but I never refuse when they ask to go out

By the way I gave them the nickname PITA #1 and PITA #2
2014 4 WD Silverado 403 CI diesel long bed dually, B&W hitch with 95 Gallon Auxiliary Fuel Tank, pulling a 33 foot Holiday Rambler Alumascape suite, Winegard SK-3005 TRAV'LER slimline dish, Splendide 2100 XC washer dryer, TST Tire Pressure monitor system.

doxiemom11
Explorer II
Explorer II
They have what are called belly bands that many rescues use on "markers". It's an elastic wider band that fits over their genitals and around their body. No, they can't mark with them on. Just remember to take them off so they can go on a regular basis outside. Making them wait too many hours can lead to bladder stones which is another issue with frequent urination and unable to hold it.

silvercorvette
Explorer
Explorer
I have a problem with my male dog marking his spot in the house. I don't hit my dogs but I do have ways of punishing them without hitting. As a last resort I made him wear a diapers that are held in place with a elastic band. My dog will not pee if he is wearing a diaper and I bet your dog will not poo if she will wind up with her poo in a diaper.
2014 4 WD Silverado 403 CI diesel long bed dually, B&W hitch with 95 Gallon Auxiliary Fuel Tank, pulling a 33 foot Holiday Rambler Alumascape suite, Winegard SK-3005 TRAV'LER slimline dish, Splendide 2100 XC washer dryer, TST Tire Pressure monitor system.

Happytraveler
Explorer
Explorer
The last dog we had hated her crate. Thinking back she was having an anxiety attack. We decided not to put her in the crate anymore and she did fantastic being left in the RV or home on her own for a few hours.
Charlie, a male Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier
Katie, a female Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier

daverich
Explorer
Explorer
Two trips leaving her in the crate for two hours and no problems. I started putting her on the lease when I walked her and now she is pooping twice a day just like before and urinating many times. She is getting a lot of praising. Time will tell.

Code2High
Explorer
Explorer
You say that stools are normal "outside the crate." If that means "outside of the issue of soiling in the crate, all stools are normal," that's one thing. If they are soft/loose when in the crate or left alone, that's a strong indicator of a very anxious dog.

In addition to dealing with anxiety and confusion, which may be a big part of this problem, feeding schedules are a good place to look. If you're free-feeding, STOP and get Precious on a schedule. No more than twice a day and most healthy dogs do fine on one meal and maybe a snack later in the day. Random input creates random output and that's very tough to manage in a situation like this. Feeding a more compact food can also help. This can range from a higher quality, grain free kibble which will produce less bulk in the GI tract and less "ammo" in the crate, all the way to straight raw meat, or anywhere in the middle.

The "spite" issue is not one I buy into... dogs become confused, stressed, anxious, and they act out. It's not the same mental process as what we think of as spite, and they don't have the same feelings about poop that you do. They will mark with their poop, so if they are anxious about their place in the world, that's a behavior that can occur.

But as Doug says, it's really a semantics thing. Dogs will do things we don't like when upset, and making them not feel that way will stop the behavior. Whether Precious is "marking' or "telling you she's mad" or "pooping because she's stressed," the solutions will all be similar, in fact.

Nothing In Life Is Free is a PITA but it is an awesome way to make a dog feel calmer, less anxious, and less in charge. That's because being in charge makes dogs anxious. Many times what we view as "loving" a dog is what they view as "making me be in charge of the whole world!" and that creates a lot of problems. Sometimes that's obvious in other ways... a dog that tries to boss other dogs or people... and sometimes it's a little less obvious due to the dynamics in the household.

Pheremones, supplements (L-tryptophan, sam-e, valerian are a few) aromatherapy (lavender has a calming effect on dogs) as well as something to do (a chew toy she likes) can all help with an anxious dog. Beyond that there are prescription meds that can reduce anxiety. How you leave the dog and how you come back can be very important in SA situations, also. There's a lot to learn. You may just want to google around a bit (in addition to the article that Doug posted) and learn what you can and see how that fits with what you've seen.
susan

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a wabbit, Fuzzy Wuzzy had a dandelion habit! RIP little Wuz... don't go far.

dturm
Moderator
Moderator
We may be arguing semantics, whether it's a dog being "mad" or "anxious" or "spiteful" the results are the same. House soiling is a frequent result of separation anxiety.

Since this behavior happens only when being left alone, it seems apparent to me that it's not a house training issue. If you change how the dog reacts to the initiating stressor, the behavior will change. The article I referenced above has some methods on how to approach this problem. Easy to say, not always so easy to accomplish.

That's where the feeding, exercise and environment changes would be useful in eliminating the symptoms. If you need to, contact a behaviorist or your vet for specific treatment recommendations and/or medications and supplements that could be useful.
Doug & Sandy
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TugCE
Explorer
Explorer
rockhillmanor wrote:
I find changing what time you feed their last meal makes a big difference also. Back up her last feeding. If you feed her at 7:00 back that last feeding to around 4:00. ALSO don't feed her right before you leave the RV!

Dogs have a very short digestive tract compared to us.

If you feed her earlier she will move her bowels earlier and during her last 'outside' call before you go to bed and/or leave the RV.

And trust me they will NOT starve to death having their last or first meal that early. A lot of pet owners do that just to avoid the same problem you are encountering. :W

Hang in there a little forethought and/or observance of your pets habits and all will sort it self out! :C


We fed our girls at around 7 am after they have got outside to do their business. They get fed again at between 1:30 and 3pm. If for whatever reason we are out and do not get home until after 6pm, we do not not feed them until morning. We do give them a couple of treats but have found that our little Sandi can not hold it until morning if she eats that late. Trust me when I say they do not act like they are starving and usually just curl up and lay down after having a treat or two. Now I do not know if this makes a difference or not but we do not and have never have gave people food to our girls.

As for Crate Training, Little Sandi was crate trained. We would only put her in her "House" when we would leave the house. She knew that she would get one treat once she was inside plus we would have another hidden in there for her to find. After she got old enough we stopped using the crate. We did get a crate for Macy at the same time as Sandi but she would not go in it and would sit there and cry if we put her toys inside it. I believe she remembered the way her old family treated her. So, we got rid of the crate.

As for Dogs being spiteful, I have had three Dachshund's and let me tell you these are one of the most spiteful dogs that I have ever seen. My last one a Mini named Trouble had a special place to poop for whatever person she was mad at. Now my present Pups do not have a spiteful bone in their body.
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doxiemom11
Explorer II
Explorer II
We had a rescue dog that did this every time we left him. We didn't use a crate as he had lived in a kennel for 7 years aleady. Only time he made a mess was when left along, and he did it so you would find it just inside the door when you came back home. We then got a 2nd dog - a female of the same breed. When he had company, he stopped and never did it again.

rockhillmanor
Explorer
Explorer
daverich wrote:
Thanks for all the positive input folks. We are going to continue crating her when we leave. And if she continues to mess in the crate, we will move her from the bed to the crate of the night time.

And yes, we always leave the TV on for her. Her name is Precious and she is still precious to us even with this little hickup.



I find changing what time you feed their last meal makes a big difference also. Back up her last feeding. If you feed her at 7:00 back that last feeding to around 4:00. ALSO don't feed her right before you leave the RV!

Dogs have a very short digestive tract compared to us.

If you feed her earlier she will move her bowels earlier and during her last 'outside' call before you go to bed and/or leave the RV.

And trust me they will NOT starve to death having their last or first meal that early. A lot of pet owners do that just to avoid the same problem you are encountering. :W

Hang in there a little forethought and/or observance of your pets habits and all will sort it self out! :C

We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us.

Deb_and_Ed_M
Explorer II
Explorer II
I am still wayne_tw wrote:
RFCN2 wrote:
She is mad because you are leaving her.


Sorry, but dogs don't have that kind of an emotional thought process.


I disagree - especially a smart-but-stubborn breed like a ShihTzu.

I went through this for a while when our adult daughter and Bailey, her Shih-Tzu moved back in with us. They had lived with us when she got him as a pup - so I know he was completely housebroken; and he went to obedience class, too. Then she moved to New York - and he was the King of their apartment for several years. Then they came back - and he was relegated to being "one of the pack" and he didn't like it.

I'd send all of the dogs out to potty first thing in the morning - then before I'd get into the shower, I'd send 'em out again. Would come downstairs a half-hour later and find a pile of poop behind a chair. YES I would yell at him (I knew it was Bailey because my other 3 dogs were a LOT bigger). It went on for several weeks (along with other out-of-control behaviors) until I finally cracked down on him just about the same time my Aussie Ike did (and that was really weird because Ike was a gentle heart and completely dog-friendly). Bailey also liked to "attack the door" as someone walked towards it - scratching at it in a furious/destructive manner - until Ike would bite-and-roll him. Or Bailey would bounce around excitedly in the car - until Ike would pin him in the back corner of the SUV. So there was something going on with Bailey's emotional state - that "didn't fit in with the pack" as Cesar likes to say.

And I just treated him like a brand new pup - he wasn't loose unless he was in sight of me - and when we went outside - he was leashed until he pottied. He slept in his crate, NOT in the bed. He ate when I told him to. There's a training style called NILF: Nothing In Life is Free - and it works well with headstrong dogs. The KING OF THE WORLD became the peon. And finally, he figured out that being a "good dog" earned him more freedom and fun, etc - and he did fine.

My daughter bought a house, and now Bailey has a dog door to go out into a dog run any time he wants, 24/7

He stayed with us for a long weekend a few weeks ago - and he was still Mr Perfect Manners.

But Little Mr Tyrant is taking out his anger on my daughter, because he's pooping on HER carpet now..... even when he has access to the outdoors.

So yes, I DO believe that dogs can take their anger out on their humans.....
Ed, Deb, and 2 dogs
Looking for a small Class C!

daverich
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for all the positive input folks. We are going to continue crating her when we leave. And if she continues to mess in the crate, we will move her from the bed to the crate of the night time.

And yes, we always leave the TV on for her. Her name is Precious and she is still precious to us even with this little hickup.

wcjeep
Explorer
Explorer
Do you leave music on in the RV? Classical music is best. The instruments mimic human voice. We also walk them first if away for more than twenty minutes.

WyoTraveler
Explorer
Explorer
We bought an ACD couple of years ago. The breeder bragged how she crate trained all her dogs. Now I am in my 70s & have dogs all my life but never a crate trained dog. Now That dog never crapped in the crate. That dog would******every every place in the house. In planters, in shoes, on the bed. We talked to dog experts & what I kept hearing is how great. crate training was for a dog. It was get rid of the dog or solve the problem. #1. I threw that crate in the trash. #2. I started house breaking like other dogs I had over the years. That dog did become frustated & wierd crawling under beds, chairs, tables, in corners etc. looking for a safe haven. Finally he came around & is completely house trained. He has an outside bark & a quiet inside bark. He only quiet barks when he wants my attention. JMHO. crates are for people showing dogs or for transporting hunting dogs. Our dog is part of the family. No reason to put him in jail. I know. I read it all. Dogs & dens etc.

Bottom line, throw that crate away & house break your dog & make him/her part of the family & the problem will go away.