Dog to dog aggression while camping

[campn4walleye]

We just completed 4 wonderful days at a county CG on a very nice fishing lake.

The moment we arrived, we noticed a family with a pit bull running loose. I asked them to put it on a leash as we have dogs too and our weim doesn't always like other dogs and is protective of our cavalier. (There is a leash rule) but it seems it is not enforced. The camp host lets his little pom run free.

Anyhow, we got set up and the pit bull's owner comes over and says he's sorry he doesn't have a leash or tie out line. In truth, the dog doesn't even have a collar! I'm annoyed, but was civil, and warned him to keep it out of our site.

Naturally, they let their 4 y/o come over with the dog. Immediately, our dog rushed the dog and there was a quick fight. The guy didn't even know it happened until he heard us yell.

What would you do? Our dog is so quiet and sweet, unless a dog comes into his area without being properly introduced. If they had met in passing, he would have been fine.

How in the world can an owner maintain responsibility for the dog without a collar and leash?

Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for listening.

[dturm]

I think this thread has run it's course.

[Gunner45]

joeshmoe wrote:
Perhaps. But you're suggesting that ANY dog that snarls in protest is automatically justified in doing so. Why doesn't my dog snarl and get protective of his space when another dog comes around?

Pawz4me wrote:
Because he's a Lab. Different groups of dogs (sporting, hunting, herding, etc.) have different play styles. The sporting breeds in general have no clue about personal space, and many other dogs find that behavior totally obnoxious.

This describes our GSD and Labs exactly! We had a Lab that was just like Marley in our CGC class when she was younger. He was hilarious and so over the top full of energy, but that did not endear him to our dog 😄

Our Samoyed doesn't mind any breed, he's a happy go lucky character, but the GSD is more selective in who she allows into her bubble.

~ Dori ~

[joeshmoe]

:R Thanks for the sarcasm.

[Bionic_Man]

How did an incident where one dog was under control, on it's own campsite and approached by an uncontrolled, invading dog, get equated to a encounter at Petsmart. Certainly not congruent.

And Joeshmoe I am glad that you have such command over your dog, and that you believe that re socializing a traumatized dog is so simple as repetition of encounters with other dogs. You appear to be a better trainer than the 3 trainers/behavior specialists that I have worked with. Perhaps you have a second calling. If you are as good as you claim, I, and I am sure many others, would gladly pay for your training.

[joeshmoe]

toedtoes wrote:


Personally, I don't care if your lab is friendly

An that's all I need. Have a nice day.

Just to add, in the off chance that I happen to see your rig somewhere, anywhere, don't worry. I'll be sure to go the other direction or somewhere else altogether. I won't be bothering you. I mean WE won't be.

[toedtoes]

Joeshmoe - If you and your dog come up to my dogs and my dogs are given "warning" that a strange dog is coming up to you AND I am given warning that I need to be aware that strange dogs are in close proximity to mine, then I don't have a problem.

But in the OP's situation, the other dog was not leashed, was not in control of an adult, the owner didn't even know where the dog (and small child) were, and came into another dog's space. I'm sorry, that's not acceptable.

Personally, I don't care if your lab is friendly and you want it to visit. I don't want my dog visiting with your dog UNLESS I say it's OK - it doesn't matter if my dog wasn't socialized, or was traumatized, or had recently been sick, or whatever. I don't push my dogs on yours, don't push yours on mine.

[BCSnob]

joeshmoe wrote:

My attitude?

The attitude that dogs should accept all advances by other dogs and if they dare to communicate they do not want the advances they must be unsocialized or aggressive.

[joeshmoe]

Happytraveler wrote:
I guess you would say we failed in the socialization of our dog because he distrusted strange dogs after he got attacked by a strange dog.
That's exactly what happened to Charlie when he was around 10 months old. He was never the same after that incident.

No, what you failed to do is re-socialize your dog. After that incident, you just gave up, went and withdrew from outings where "strange" dogs are? I understand that it wasn't your fault, but c'mon. You and your dog gotta get back up on that horse!
I know it's a pain, but regularly, actively engaging other dogs will keep them from reacting aggressively or fearfully. My dog gets jumped, humped, growled at, barked at and sometimes pinned to the ground (usually it's the other dog just being overly playful), but he NEVER snarls or snaps and just moves on because I trained him to do that. I don't get out the k9 spray and start shooting the other dog. I don't pack up and leave. I don't get grumpy about it. We continue on.

In perspective, it's like driving your vehicle....You know there are offensive, belligerent drivers out there with no regard for others. You adjust accordingly. You don't go into rage mode. You don't start shooting (although you might feel like it) You don't throw anything. You don't stop driving your car because you had an "incident". Now, obviously, any dog that straight out attacks you or you dog and/or starts a fight, you need to do whatever you need to do. But a dog that simply comes into your space? What? Where the rules allow no leashes, my dog does that all time. He's just being social.

As far as I'm concerned, leashes are strictly for other people that either don't want dogs around them or don't want dogs other than their own around them. Or for dogs that are SO out of control, that only a leash can restrain them. That's not a dog that should be out in public anyway -- at least not til it gets properly trained and socialized. If ALL dog owners did this, there'd be a lot more relaxed dogs AND owners out there.

[joeshmoe]

BCSnob wrote:

This attitude reminds me of the attitude of owners of male dogs who allow their males to sniff the backend and then try to mount our females, and then get pissed when our females turn and snap at their males. Or act like we have "the typical b***h" when our females are snarling at their posturing (sex crazed) males as they approach. Not all male dogs are like this and not all owners of male dogs are like this; but many are.

My attitude?
Now you're just throwing out anecdotal examples, seruptiously trying to demonize my dogs behavior because I took a different position on the OP's claim.
Why are you suggesting or assuming things that my dog does?

1. He's neutered. The drive has been removed.
2. He's never more than 5 feet from me as he's been trained.
3. He's not allowed to run around unless he's somewhere where that's allowed, like the beach or park.
4. No butt sniffing (yeah, I know. A male that doesn't sniff butts. How can this be?) He simply doesn't do it because he knows he's not allowed.

He just walks next to me. By and large, the vast majority of dogs we run into are fine. It's not a "recurring" problem as some else quipped.
It's the occasional OTHER dog that give the aggressive "stay away or I'll tear you apart growl". And the owner is usually along the lines of "Yep, he (or she) doesn't like other dogs around and might snap. Really? And you bring this dog out in public with other dogs and people? I question the who the truly irresponsible owners are.

[BCSnob]

Pawz4me wrote:

I hate to break it to you, but the dog that makes noise is generally considered to be the one with the problem.

Maybe by the average pet owner. By people who really know dogs -- no.

I agree, people who know how to read dogs would not jump to the conclusion that the dog making the noise is the problem dog. This is very evident to those of us who have a pack of dogs.

Think of it this way, two children sitting in the back seat of a car. One yells out, stop touching me. Who is the problem, the one that yelled or the one that was doing the touching just to get a rise out of the other?

[Pawz4me]

joeshmoe wrote:

So...even though my dog (and others like him) aren't being aggressive, just friendly, he's the one that needs training?

There is "just friendly" and there's in-your-face-way-over-friendly. It sounds to me as if your dog has gone way past the "just friendly" threshold. So . . yes. He needs training. The fact that he's receiving warnings from multiple dogs should be taken as a clue that the problem may in fact be with him and not with all the other dogs.

I hate to break it to you, but the dog that makes noise is generally considered to be the one with the problem.

Maybe by the average pet owner. By people who really know dogs -- no.

[joeshmoe]

:-0

[joeshmoe]

Pawz4me wrote:


The fact that so many dogs seem to be telling your dog to back off certainly makes me wonder how well socialized to other dogs yours is, or what kind of signals he's giving off that are making other dogs wary. It seems to be a routine occurrence. Of course, as you say about the OP, we're only getting one side of your story.

Touche! Okay. LoL

So...even though my dog (and others like him) aren't being aggressive, just friendly, he's the one that needs training? I hate to break it to you, but the dog that makes noise is generally considered to be the one with the problem. Not the other way around.

In an off leash environment, anything goes with the exception of aggressive behavior. Any dog that gets pissy or defensive that quick, shouldn't be there or any campgound.

I've often read that the personality of a dog is just an extension of the owner's personality. Hmm.

[BCSnob]

joeshmoe wrote:
Why doesn't my dog snarl and get protective of his space when another dog comes around?

Dogs that have no sense of personal space don't care about their own personal space which is why they have no issues with being up close and personal with strange dogs.

If a dog snarls when another is making the approach, that dog is telling the approaching dog to slow down your approach or to stay back.

This attitude reminds me of the attitude of owners of male dogs who allow their males to sniff the backend and then try to mount our females, and then get pissed when our females turn and snap at their males. Or act like we have "the typical b***h" when our females are snarling at their posturing (sex crazed) males as they approach. Not all male dogs are like this and not all owners of male dogs are like this; but many are.