3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[CarNut]

Now that Power Pro schematic is posted, can anyone tell if all the amps can be pulled off the single 110 socket?

[guy48065]

My thanks to KD for hosting this schematic of the Power Pro 3500 (Pep Boys):
http://www.y4hdesigns.com/images/PP3500schem.jpg
I added the note on the print about the location of the pair of brushes. According to the schematic & my visual confirmation there is one set (2) of small brushes that feed voltage from the stationary voltage regulator to the rotating field windings. I can't imagine how a brushless generator does this.

THe schematic has a couple minor errors. The 120V socket is shownn ungrounded but I verified it's grounded to the frame. The voltmeter is shown across the 120V winding instead of the entire 240V. And it shows a fuel level switch that's actually an oil level switch.

[youth4him]

Quick follow up, will do another one later, once I get this addressed.

Got my wildfire about an hour ago. Looks like some shipping issues happend. It was covered in oil and silica gel (don't eat). I cleaned it up, no big deal, made sure the oil tank was full, put gas, choke, pull, Fired Right up. Off choke to run, no worries.

It sounded kind of vibraty...so, on further check, the "motor" mount was found to be broken on one side, so it was rubbing on the metal. I didn't see this before in my excitement. It's also leaking a little fuel from the fuel-cut off at the tank.

I'm thinking it must have fallen out of the truck. We'll see, but waiting to hear back from the Wildfire guys on how we'll address it (maybe a new unit.)

On the sound side, this is pretty darn quiet. I stuck my head in it, and could still hear a conversation beside me. I'd consider it white noise at a campground.



Wildfire Motors got back to me, starting the UPS claim thing now, but they'll replace it at no cost to me, so not a big deal there...in my opinion, these are a pretty good deal for those of you that can't find one locally.

You can tell the quality isn't at the highest, but seems to be well put together overall.

[guy48065]

Specifications without all the little qualifiers (details) are at best vague and at worst, a total lie. A noise measurement needs to detail
WHAT is being measured (each side of a genset "sounds" different).
DISTANCE it's being measured from (sound intensity drops rapidly with distance).
SCALE it's measured on (dba, b, c--each "weighs", or biases the measurement according to the frequency range of interest)
SURROUNDINGS--rarely mentioned but the intensity will be very different, at some distance, when measured in the middle of a grassy field compared to a cement parking lot due to absorbed/reflected sound reaching the microphone.

There are various standards groups that specify these parameters in an attempt to make everyone use the same methods. An example would be "Noise output measured 68dba at 7M from the muffler, free field (meaning no nearby reflecting surfaces), engine at idle". Now that's useful.

Generator distributors should undertake these measurements themselves if the manufacturer can't or won't provide them. WIthout these details an unscrupulous seller could claim theirs measured "40db" of noise. It would be helpful to know it wasn't actually running at the time!

Sorry for the length of my rant--but it's my (day) job :B

[FrizzleFried]

According to the PowerWise literature I received (which included specific insructions for the generator (badly done), specific instructions for the wheel kit (also badly done) and specific insructions for the Juang(sp?) motor which was pretty thorough), the PowerMate runs at 65db-68db which would indicate to me (at least) that it's 65db with no load and 68db at full load?

[Catalina35]

If you are interested in the Power Pro at Pep Boys you might want to jump on one while you can. Their national ad just was delivered here yesterday and it had the Power Pro at $289.00. I went down the local store today to have a look see. The Manager gave me the deer in the headlight look. He had no idea what I was talking about. It appears to me Pep Boys is pulling the same scam they did with the Elim in as much as many stores never even had one especially out west. I know they just moved down to last on my auto parts shopping list.

[guy48065]

The info Paul Cole at Champion sent me showed a low reading of 68 dba at 7M from the muffler--same as the Elim. Higher readings on other sides. Maybe Champion publishes the highest reading rather than the lowest? Has anybody verified the Champion noise?

Another thought: I can't recall any literature or ad stating if this measurement is taken under load or unloaded. In the middle of a grass field or in the factory. All this makes a huge difference. The bottom line is always your EARS and there have been posts claiming it's very quiet.

mkmathis wrote:

cpaulsen wrote:
At Kragens...they now have a Champion.......is this the same thing??

But after further review I found the noise decibel rating and I believe it was around 76dba(which is unacceptable for most campers).

[mkmathis]

cpaulsen wrote:
At Kragens...they now have a Champion.......is this the same thing??

NO,NO,NO,,,,, They tried to replace my Powerwise with the Champion when I went for a return. After first look I thought it would be great since the Champion has more features and I believe a little higher wattage. But after further review I found the noise decibel rating and I believe it was around 76dba(which is unacceptable for most campers). That is when Imade them scourer all their stores to find me a replacement. But of course then she tells me that their delivery service can not ship it and I would have to pick it up....Well worth it though!

[youth4him]

guy48065:

Send me the file, and I can host it for you on my server...

KD

[Jack_Shidemantl]

I've had my ELIM3000 for about 3 wks now, testing it off and on. Very pleased with it so far, but agree the 120V duplex outlet needs to be upgraded.

I see on pg 113 of May Trailer Life another one of these Chinese knockoffs. Picture not in color so can't tell too much about it. It is a bit pricey at $489. Looks similiar to the models discussed here.

[guy48065]

I've scanned the schematic for the PowerPro 3500 (Pep Boys). Can images be posted to this forum? If not, could someone suggest a spam and pop-up-free host for the file? It's about 300K. That's if anybody is interested...:?

[toprudder]

CarNut wrote:
I know it has been posted previously that the appliances will not like low voltage for any length of time.

Resistive loads (such as heaters) don't care except for the fact they won't put out as much heat. Anything with a motor (such as the AC) could overheat and damage the motor. Electronic appliances (such as a microwave or TV)-- it depends. I suspect they are more sensitive to the noise on the waveform than to a slightly low voltage level.

I might also suspect the meter that you are using. It probably is not a true RMS meter.

[Scruffy5]

The Champion is there replacement for the Powerwise with 220 volts plus 12v,wheel and handle kit also. I bought one and I like it. Not cheap looking. The box it came in said 114 lbs,I took it out of the box and I thought I was a powerhouse,without the wheelkit dry on my feed scale she weighed in at 88lbs and fairly quiet.But i'm use to my old 10 hp coleman

[cpaulsen]

At Kragens...they now have a Champion.......is this the same thing??

[FrizzleFried]

I logged on kragen.com (checkers.com/partsofamerica or something like that), anyways, when I went to order the PowerMate 3500 from them it indicated that the only option I had was to pick it up at a local Kragen. Low and behold, it showed a local store to me. The same one I called the day before and they said they DID NOT have the generator in stock. I called them and explained that I went on to their website and tried to order the unit and that it directed me to them. The guy who answered, Dave, said that they only had the floor model left and that he wasn't sure if he was supposed to sell it. He said he would check to see if he had all the parts and call me back. About an hour later I get a call and he indicates he DOES have all the parts. I ask about a discount as it is the floor model (it's an automatic NO unless you ask!), and sure enough the dude said he could knock $20.00 off the $299.00 price. So i ended up with a PowerWise 3500 unit for $279.00 + tax. The unit DOES come with a set of wheels and handle. It is the 110v only model with 2 25amp recepticals and it states right in the manual that it can do 25amp per receptical or 15a x 2 simultaniously. The receptical appears to be of a decent built from what i can see, perhaps better than the Elim models? I have yet to fire it up, which I plan on doing tomorrow after work. I have a brand new 2hp 4gal pancake air compressor I have to test out as well...perfect for testing surge ability.

This model does have 12v as well...