3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[kilgtfish]

I forgot to comment on dubman's breaker question..... When you have a 220v circuit, you use both legs of 110v to power a device, and if that device needs 30amps to operate, it has to have 30amp flow trough both legs due to the fact that the legs are operating in a push pull type of interaction. So if a double pole breaker says 30 amp on it that means that 30 amps will flow through each leg. Hope I haven't confused everybody.
Tom

[kilgtfish]

Little Bill
I'm not sure about the elim. Usually when you have a 220v supply with only 3 wires, you have 2 110v wires and one ground wire. The reason this can work is that the two 110v legs are out of phase with each other and so they add.....in a push pull kind of reaction. In this case a neutral wire is not necessary. The neutral wire in other 220volt setups is actually carrying current from both legs of the 220v. to provide current flow. Since the current flow in a three wire setup is from one 110volt leg to the other 110volt leg a neutral is not needed(as I said redundantly before). The third wire of course is a ground for safety in case a hot wire gets loose and touches the frame of whatever its in. So to use only one leg of 110v from a 3 wire setup would require the addition of a neutral wire to carry the current. The safety ground wire is never to be used for carrying current. Luckily the Power pro has the 4 wire outlet.
Tom

[Dubman]

LittleBill wrote:
now you got me thinking though, i wonder if we leave the switch in 110 and plug in to the plug if we will get 110 out of the 220v recepticle, im going to get my volt meter out and check

I will be very interested in your results.. I like the twist lock outlets and would be nice to be able to use it for 110v...

[LittleBill]

Dubman wrote:
What kilgtfish says kinda makes sense to me, because if you look at your breaker box in your house, the 220v breaker simply connects across 2 110v legs in the box. So if you connect to the 220v outlet on our ELIM3000 gensets, but only use one leg in the connector, you are only getting 110v.. My question would be what do you set the switch at to do this?? 110v or 220v? And secondly are you really gaining anything by doing this, because at the 220V outlet are you only getting 15amps when you use 1-110v leg??

that was kind of my point, on our elims we would actually disadvantage ourselves, we would be limited to 15 amps, as apposed to runing them in parrellel at 110v and getting over 22 amps, not to mention we would then need another adapter to get it to connect to the rv plug

now you got me thinking though, i wonder if we leave the switch in 110 and plug in to the plug if we will get 110 out of the 220v recepticle, im going to get my volt meter out and check

[LittleBill]

kilgtfish wrote:
Regarding the 220 outlet on my Power pro generator.....When you use an adapter like the 50 amp to 30 amp....you are only using one of the phases of the 220volts. A 220 volt supply has two hot legs(phases) and they are each 110volts(may be 120volts depending on the supply). So what you have is two 110 legs, one neutral wire, and one ground wire. The adapter I spoke of has a connector on one end which has 4 prongs and they correspond to the wires I mentioned in the previous sentence. On the other end of the short adapter cable is a plug with only 3 prongs which corresponds to one 110v leg, a neutral, and a ground. So you see, I am using 110 volts from the 220volt outlet which delivers 30amps and has the correct guage wire to handle that load. If you are snowed by all this, just get an electrician to make you a pigtail with the appropriate plugs on each end.

Tom

i completely understand what your saying but was confused about the way you wired your setup you must have a NEMA L14-30R connecter on your generator my elim doesn't have this its a simple 3 prong 220v twistlock only 3 wires not 4, no nuetral, i guess you just didn't connect one of the hot legs on the plug for the generator? i can understand it now, i actually wonder though if the wiring is actually of a thicker guage going to that plug, im not really sure about the power pro series, do you have a link with a picture? i guess its a better way to do it, by gaining the twist lock, but that adapter is pretty expensive, i'll stick to pluging into my 110 outlet with my adapter

[Dubman]

What kilgtfish says kinda makes sense to me, because if you look at your breaker box in your house, the 220v breaker simply connects across 2 110v legs in the box. So if you connect to the 220v outlet on our ELIM3000 gensets, but only use one leg in the connector, you are only getting 110v.. My question would be what do you set the switch at to do this?? 110v or 220v? And secondly are you really gaining anything by doing this, because at the 220V outlet are you only getting 15amps when you use 1-110v leg??

[mwf414]

thank littlebill for the info...the owners manual that comes with the ELM3000 tells nothing and it is all new to me...so if I wanted to use the 220V recepticle for say a welder or well pump, I would need to make some kind of pigtail to come off the round 220V 30A recepticle?

[LittleBill]

mwf414 wrote:
my RV says it is 110V..it has a 30A cord with a 3 prong plug...the plug won't fit the round 220V 30A on my ELM 3000...I have a 15 to 30 A adapter from a camper store that will allow me to plug into the 110V recepticle...my question is, what is the round 220V recepticle on the generator for and will I be ok running it off the 110V recepticle?

220v 30 amp twist lock is design for 220v applcations, i need it for power backup in case my house goes out, my well and a variety of other things are 220v

your rv on the other hand is 110v, plugging into the 220v plug will effectivly destroy things, if you had followed the post, you can see that the elim3000 can provide all power 22 some amps from one single outlet, which makes the elim 3000 perfect for rv use, hence the reason i bought my elim, but also provides 220v for the reasons i mentioned above.

[kilgtfish]

Regarding the 220 outlet on my Power pro generator.....When you use an adapter like the 50 amp to 30 amp....you are only using one of the phases of the 220volts. A 220 volt supply has two hot legs(phases) and they are each 110volts(may be 120volts depending on the supply). So what you have is two 110 legs, one neutral wire, and one ground wire. The adapter I spoke of has a connector on one end which has 4 prongs and they correspond to the wires I mentioned in the previous sentence. On the other end of the short adapter cable is a plug with only 3 prongs which corresponds to one 110v leg, a neutral, and a ground. So you see, I am using 110 volts from the 220volt outlet which delivers 30amps and has the correct guage wire to handle that load. If you are snowed by all this, just get an electrician to make you a pigtail with the appropriate plugs on each end.
Now about the Gen-turi.....I kind of crossed subjects in this thread when I talked about the home made gen-turi which I added to my Power pro(from Pep Boys). A search on Gen-turi will give you a wealth of info on this great addition.
I should also add that my generator is mounted on the extendable bike platform which the new Cougar 5th wheels have in the rear. So the gen-turi is conveniently attached to my ladder on the back, and I have permanently mounted it to the ladder and the generator.
No pictures yet, but I will try to get some soon.
Tom

[mwf414]

my RV says it is 110V..it has a 30A cord with a 3 prong plug...the plug won't fit the round 220V 30A on my ELM 3000...I have a 15 to 30 A adapter from a camper store that will allow me to plug into the 110V recepticle...my question is, what is the round 220V recepticle on the generator for and will I be ok running it off the 110V recepticle?

[Dubman]

guy48065 wrote:
I thought I had read all 800 posts...Where is this Gen-Turi mentioned?

I think this is what he made, which is similar to what the Professor made..

[LittleBill]

kilgtfish wrote:
I am tickled with my Power-pro generator. I just used a 50 amp to 30 amp converter pigtail....it has the 4 prong male 50 amp plug on one end and a female 3 prong RV plug on the other.....and I cut off the 4 prong plug and added the twist lock 220 plug that came with the genset. So I don't have any worries about not getting the maximum amps to the rv. The 220 plug is 30 amp. I also made a gen-turi which made the gen. even more quiet. I just followed the examples that others made in the forum. I used black plastic pipe from Lowes and a conduit ell. I spaced the ell with 1/2 " copper pipes placed at 120 degrees inside the black pipe....as someone else did in this forum. I just drilled a hole in the ell and the exhaust pipe of the gen. to pin the ell and allow for easy removal. The Power-pro exhaust pipe is only about 7/8 " so I used 1" conduit and 2" black pipe....it works perfectly. I don't feel that back pressure is a problem due to the small amount of exhaust from this engine. If your generator has a larger exhaust pipe of course you have to use larger pipe to your gen-turi.
Anyway....I am thrilled at the info I have gotten from all of the rv forum members. It really helps when problems are encountered to have this resource to call upon.

is your rv 220? cus it sounds like u wired your setup for 220 not 110? are you only using 2 prongs on the 220v plug for the generator?

[guy48065]

I thought I had read all 800 posts...Where is this Gen-Turi mentioned?

[youth4him]

Any pics of the genturi?

[kilgtfish]

I am tickled with my Power-pro generator. I just used a 50 amp to 30 amp converter pigtail....it has the 4 prong male 50 amp plug on one end and a female 3 prong RV plug on the other.....and I cut off the 4 prong plug and added the twist lock 220 plug that came with the genset. So I don't have any worries about not getting the maximum amps to the rv. The 220 plug is 30 amp. I also made a gen-turi which made the gen. even more quiet. I just followed the examples that others made in the forum. I used black plastic pipe from Lowes and a conduit ell. I spaced the ell with 1/2 " copper pipes placed at 120 degrees inside the black pipe....as someone else did in this forum. I just drilled a hole in the ell and the exhaust pipe of the gen. to pin the ell and allow for easy removal. The Power-pro exhaust pipe is only about 7/8 " so I used 1" conduit and 2" black pipe....it works perfectly. I don't feel that back pressure is a problem due to the small amount of exhaust from this engine. If your generator has a larger exhaust pipe of course you have to use larger pipe to your gen-turi.
Anyway....I am thrilled at the info I have gotten from all of the rv forum members. It really helps when problems are encountered to have this resource to call upon.