3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[PatJ]

Great forum, great thread.

I read the whole thing, and I appreciate all the work that has gone in to this thread. Thanks, everyone!

I went out today and bought the Champion C46535 unit from Shucks Auto (Kragen, Checker, Parts America, etc.) I spent the evening poking around with it and testing it. I felt it was right to post my findings to the discussion. It's a must read if you are considering the Champion unit.

http://pweb.amerion.com/~patsplace/generator.htm

Thanks again everyone.

Pat

[jimpcon]

After reading the majority of the 52 pages of this topic i went out and bought one of the Power wise units from Pep Boys. THANK YOU for all of the great info!!!

Here is my problem though, I am a newbie who has not even taken ownership yet of our TT, a 2005 Prowler FQS. Hopefully sometime next week. What i am trying to understand is how to hook up my TT power cord correctly.

I have two outlets on my genset. One is a standard plug 110v and the other is a 4 prong 110/240 receptacle.From reading the topic, I know i can go out and buy a 15amp male to 30 amp female adapter and this should provide all of my power needs. A/C, Microwave, etc.
Big question is how to make the other receptacle work properly. It does say 110/240 30 amp. With my limited knowledge of elctricty, I would think that running the TT power cord off of that side would be more effective.

The unit came with two end plugs both male, one for each outlet.

I read some good things on coverting it over from about page 48 on but I am having trouble understanding it. I am no dummy, i just want to get it right. Can someone please put it in laymans terms?

Thank you in advance,
Jim

[Smokeman]

I bought two of the Champion 3500 Watt units while on vacation in the US recently. I fired one of them up today. Starts easy, I don't know whether I would call it quiet or not though. I looked at the Jiang Dong units at Harbor freight and other than the arrangement of the outlets on the front panel these units could pass for twins, same frame, 196 cc engines, muffler and guard look identical, engine, carb, and air cleaner look identical. I made an adapter to go from the 30 amp rv plug to the 30 amp 110 volt twist lock and ran my a/c and microwave off the generator no problem. The breaker on the generator kicked off when I turned on the 1500 watt heater as expected. I expect to use this unit very little and only out in the middle of nowhere so I guess it will be alright.

Brian

[TeamSlacker]

Not a real long term test, but just came back from 4 days at the track, ran the powerwise a few hours thur night, about 14 hours fri, 14 hrs sat, and about 8 hrs today. Still not so much as a hicup from the unit. The only time I saw any issue i had the heat strip in the air running, my tire warmers on my bike on, slow cooker on, and trying to microwave a snack all at the same time, the micro made some weird noises till I turned the heat strip off, but I was probably trying to pull close to 4k at that point..oppps.. lol

[kabb]

OK, I just finished making my sound box for the JD3000. It's frame is 1x2 pine with light 1/8 plywood sides. I glued in Attic insulation then chicken wire on top of that. Cut a hole for exhuast and screwed handles on. Cost under ten bucks cause I had most the stuff. Works great, I wish I had a sound meter. I ran the generator with it off then put it on, man what a differance. The box stands above the ground by one inch to draw in the air. I have no fan on it. I will do a camp test on it next weekend to see if it holds up. I'll let ya know.

I got pictures I can email,
-Bob

[JPhelps]

I dont know about the bars. I wondered about that too. The three bars are on the red ones. The one I found locally is black and doesn't have the bars but otherwise appears to be identical except for the paint color and decal.
http://www.toolrage.com/prodView.asp?idproduct=2603

[guy48065]

Looks like another variant from Jiang Dong. There is one odd thing though. I noticed in the pictures I could find that there are 3 frame bars across the top. One welded and 2 that are clamped on. They don't appear to be a handle--so what are they for??

JPhelps wrote:
A local hardware store has a Buffalo Tools Model GEN 4065 generator that is apparently manufactured by Wenling Jennfeng. It is advertised at 4000 surge/3400 continuous output. The engine is a JF 168 FLH, 196cc, 6.5 hp, noise <67 @ 21m. $349
Does anyone know if this is the same as any of the generators that have been discussed on this thread, or does anyone know anything about this generator, good or bad?
JR

[youth4him]

That sounds like the same stuff as we've been talking about. You might look throught this thread, there are some pics in here. Mine's a Wildfire Motors one, same basic stuff, although your W ratings are higher. Same noise level, though.

Worth a look.

[JPhelps]

A local hardware store has a Buffalo Tools Model GEN 4065 generator that is apparently manufactured by Wenling Jennfeng. It is advertised at 4000 surge/3400 continuous output. The engine is a JF 168 FLH, 196cc, 6.5 hp, noise <67 @ 21m. $349
Does anyone know if this is the same as any of the generators that have been discussed on this thread, or does anyone know anything about this generator, good or bad?
JR

[MrWizard]

12ga is rated for a 20 amp breaker inside walls and/or conduit and never over heat..

it will be fine for the few inches needed to make a splice at the genset connections and will carry your full 25 amps at 120 volts no problem

[guy48065]

I got 20A out of the 110V outlet. Rewiring the 2 windings in parallel should get you more--up to the limit imposed by the 25A breaker. Is 5 more amps worth the trouble?

Didn't I read the Elim in parallel mode only outputs 22A?

Mark

CarNut wrote:
I think getting 110V out of the Power Pro 220 plug you only get half the available current. I opened my Power Pro up last night to see about re-wiring for the full amperage (connecting fields in parallel vs. series.) I was surprised how small the wires inside were, esp when the manual specifies wire size vs. length for cords. MrWizard wrote how to re-wire a few pages back (p.48). Red and white wires are spliced just out of gen head, so the white wire will need to be extended or spliced to the blue wire. I don't have a lot of confidence that one of these wires can handle full current output. I will have do some more investigating. Anyone have good reference for gauge vs. current?
Thanks for all the good info on this thread!

[n7bsn]

mkmathis wrote:
14g is 15amp
12g is 20amp
I think 10g is 30amp

That's not wrong, but it's never more (current) then that. It depends on the length of the wire invovled. eg, my 15amp service to the barn is wired with 10ga wire.

[mkmathis]

14g is 15amp
12g is 20amp
I think 10g is 30amp

[CarNut]

I think getting 110V out of the Power Pro 220 plug you only get half the available current. I opened my Power Pro up last night to see about re-wiring for the full amperage (connecting fields in parallel vs. series.) I was surprised how small the wires inside were, esp when the manual specifies wire size vs. length for cords. MrWizard wrote how to re-wire a few pages back (p.48). Red and white wires are spliced just out of gen head, so the white wire will need to be extended or spliced to the blue wire. I don't have a lot of confidence that one of these wires can handle full current output. I will have do some more investigating. Anyone have good reference for gauge vs. current?
Thanks for all the good info on this thread!

[LittleBill]

Dubman wrote:

LittleBill wrote:
now you got me thinking though, i wonder if we leave the switch in 110 and plug in to the plug if we will get 110 out of the 220v recepticle, im going to get my volt meter out and check

I will be very interested in your results.. I like the twist lock outlets and would be nice to be able to use it for 110v...

dubman i was thinking about it in the shower, it won't work, simply because of safety accidently hitting that switch would throw 220 down your 110 line, killing anything 110 related on that line, also i don't know much about how phase reversal works but to make the 220v connector work you would have to flip wires when hitting the switch, it would have to go from a hot to a neutral setup and i highly doubht it is wired this way. i will check though