3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Clark_W__Griswo]

I have a question for those with the ELIM 3000 that have upgraded the 110 plug. Did you have to remove the fuel tank to get to it?

I bought a new plug and I plan on changing it out when I get time.

Thanks!

[guy48065]

...so whatever happened to Professor95? Schools out & he's on the road with no internet access or what? No posts since 4/19...

[guy48065]

Pat you've obviously put a good deal of time into testing your Champion. Thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. I've been hoping for a thorough test of that unit since it had been my first choice when I started researching these gensets. I couldn't get ahold of one in my area (MI) without paying an additional $80 shipping so I bought and tested (Pg. 49) the Power Pro from Pep Boys instead.

Since you apparently enjoy testing & tinkering would you be interested in being the first to try MrWizards rewiring suggestion from page 48? Now that spring has sprung I haven't had the time to tinker.

[PatJ]

Thanks for the reply MrWizard.

I didn't/don't fully understand how a generator works, so I was unclear as to weather there were truly two seperate 120 windings, or if somehow there was a single 240 winding with a center tap. Thanks again for the clarification.

Pat

[MrWizard]

110/220 residential power and 110/220 generator power are both 'Single Phase'

3 phase 460 volt industrial power is something different that I will not attempt to detail here

suffice it to say that, the power pro & most likley champion can be rewired to produce full power at 110 volts

my generac TXP45 4.5 KW and my old defunct Onan 6.5 KW are wire the exact same way dual windings that can be series or Parallel , this is very common thing in generators

the mfg would have to do some trick of engineering to build a genset capable of both voltages and have it built where it could NOT be reconnected to produce all power at 110 volts

anybody worried about this could try the reconnection and put fuses or breakers inline with the winding before making the connections

the fuses would be between the windings and the common connections

[CarNut]

The Power Wise sounds like the Power Pro. On page 48 there is a link to its schematic, and note in a separate post (further down same page) on how to re-wire for max current. I don't know if I can clafify, but here is my attempt.
The generator has two fields, each producing 120V. The factory wiring is set up to make 240V by connecting the fields in series. This is analgous to two batteries in series. If you took two 12V car batteries and connected + of one to - of other, your ouput would now 24V across the other two terminals. If you take the same two batteries and connect in parallel (+ to + and - to -) you would have still 12V, but twice the capacity (common in diesel pickups, BTW). So by disconnecting the fields in series and re-connecting them in parallel, you will have full power out of one 120V circuit.
Now I think I should add that the theory is good, but I have not yet done this to my PowerPro. I am too chicken to risk frying my new generator and void the warranty.

[PatJ]

I re-read your concerns jimpcon and I think I understand. The way a normal NEMA-30 plug is wired, a device plugged into it may be either 120v (like your travel trailer) or 240 volts. This will depend on how the unit plugged into the generator is wired. The 4-pin NEMA plug has both a +120 and a -120, as well as a neutral and ground. It may be used either way, for 120 volts you would ignore one of the 120 legs, and for 240 volts you would ignore the neutral. Wired correctly, I don't think you will "fry your new TT" using such an adapter.

I have no idea how your powerwise it is configured. It may be just like mine, but with a simple switch added that only allows you to use one plug or the other. It may actually somehow combine the two 120 legs required for 240 volt operation into a higher capacity 120 leg for 120 volt operation. I would just be guessing.

Pat

[PatJ]

There is no phase reversal switch on my Champion unit.

The way this unit is wired, you may use the 120/240 volt 4-pin jack, or either (or both) of the 120v receptacles at the same time.

The generator, at any givem moment, is producing (basically) +120, -120, and 0 (neutral.) It is similar to the 3 wires that come into a house from a utility company transformer. Across either of the 120 legs and neutral, you have 120 volts. Across the two 120 legs (ignoring neutral) you have 240 volts. Any combination can be used at any time.

The problem with this is that full capacity of the generator is not avalible to a single 120V circuit.

You could rig/buy an adapter to convert the NEMA 30 jack to a normal 30 amp RV jack, and such an adapter would only use one of the two 120v legs avalible to the NEMA-30 jack, and the neutral. The problem is, you would still be accessing only half of the generator's capacity (in the case of my Champion unit, at least.)

Pat

[jimpcon]

LittleBill wrote:
so i have no idea on your situation

:)How do you think I feel?? :?

Take care,
Jim

[LittleBill]

jim my question was directed at Pat, i do not own a powerwise, i own the original elim3000, i don't even have a 4 wire 240 plug only 3, so i have no idea on your situation

[jimpcon]

LittleBill wrote:
we can only have 240 or 120 not both at the same time,

If you have read my previous post, the 120/240 issue out of the 4 prong female on the PowerWise unit I just bought, is a major reason for my not understanding. I thought you can only have one(120) or the other(240)not both. I dont want to buy or make an adapter and then fry my new TT.
The other, regular 3 prong household type plug, is 120v 25A. I suppose that I could just not even worry about the other 4 prong 120/240 and just pull from that one.

So, please help to explain if the other receptacle(120/240) can be used.

I appreciate all of the info i am getting from this topic.

Thanks!!!

Jim

[LittleBill]

Pat J, that concerns me a bit after reading that, do you have a phase reversal switch like on the elim3000? we can only have 240 or 120 not both at the same time, im wondering if yours is actually wired differently then ours, we need professor in here to see this so he can take his apart 🙂

[skram]

PatJ wrote:
Great forum, great thread.

I read the whole thing, and I appreciate all the work that has gone in to this thread. Thanks, everyone!

I went out today and bought the Champion C46535 unit from Shucks Auto (Kragen, Checker, Parts America, etc.) I spent the evening poking around with it and testing it. I felt it was right to post my findings to the discussion. It's a must read if you are considering the Champion unit.



Great write up on the Champion. I too have one, but it is also slightly different. Mine has a 120V 30A 3 prong locking receptacle, which I plan to use with the TT using a L5-30P to RV30R adapter (from Northern Tool). My manual states 76dB noise, but I don't believe it, it seems quieter. Although I cannot test that, I think it may be closer to what your specs say, in the 68dB range. Since I got it many for trackside camping, noise is not as big of an issue.

[mkmathis]

Smokeman wrote:
Wow Pat, nice write up. I purchased the Champion unit recently as well and it is interesting to note the front panel is different. Mine has the twist lock 120/240 plug on a 20 amp breaker, a 120 volt twistlock on a 30 amp breaker and one duplex plug oriented as you describe. I made an adapter to run my 30 amp rv service off the 120 volt twistlock plug by purchasing the pigtail and an L5-30 plug.

I agree the noise level would be disturbing to other campers but yes indeed you can talk beside the unit in a normal tone while it is running.

My load tests were nowhere near as sofistacated as yours. I started the generator, plugged in the rv to the 30 amp twistlock plug and ran a 1500watt heater inside the unit. I then turned on the 13,500 btu a/c and could not hear an audible difference in the sound of the generator. I then started my rv microwave on high (not sure of the wattage). The engine began to load then after a few seconds the 30 amp breaker on the generator popped. I really don't know how many watts I had going but I was hoping to run my a/c when remote camping in the boonies and it is apparent that will not be a problem. Oh I guess the refrigerator and the converter were also drawing power the same time I was testing the unit as well.

I agree it could be a great unit for emergency backup power.

Brian

I am very interested to find out how the Champion compares on the noise level to the Powerwise. The powerwise claims 65-68dba, and the Champion claims 76dba. But the mufflers and everything else look so similar that it makes me wonder??? Is the Champion another JiangDong product????

[Smokeman]

Wow Pat, nice write up. I purchased the Champion unit recently as well and it is interesting to note the front panel is different. Mine has the twist lock 120/240 plug on a 20 amp breaker, a 120 volt twistlock on a 30 amp breaker and one duplex plug oriented as you describe. I made an adapter to run my 30 amp rv service off the 120 volt twistlock plug by purchasing the pigtail and an L5-30 plug.

I agree the noise level would be disturbing to other campers but yes indeed you can talk beside the unit in a normal tone while it is running.

My load tests were nowhere near as sofistacated as yours. I started the generator, plugged in the rv to the 30 amp twistlock plug and ran a 1500watt heater inside the unit. I then turned on the 13,500 btu a/c and could not hear an audible difference in the sound of the generator. I then started my rv microwave on high (not sure of the wattage). The engine began to load then after a few seconds the 30 amp breaker on the generator popped. I really don't know how many watts I had going but I was hoping to run my a/c when remote camping in the boonies and it is apparent that will not be a problem. Oh I guess the refrigerator and the converter were also drawing power the same time I was testing the unit as well.

I agree it could be a great unit for emergency backup power.

Brian