3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[jimpcon]

sukerpooch wrote:
wifes not too thrilled and I don't know if pep boys will take this back.

I took my first Power Pro back to Pep Boys with no problem. It developed a nasty noise after about 5 hours of use in the recoil starter area. I had enough confidence in its ability from my use and from what I have read here in this thread of messages to take a chance on another figuring it was just a fluke thing.
I did drain all of the gas out and ran it dry when prior to returning it.

Since you have the 15k ac you might consider the 5500 watt unit they have for $399.00.

Good luck, sorry this is happening to you!!

Jim

[sukerpooch]

It seem that when the air cycles for the second time the genn. dosent trip the breaker right away,it just realy bogs it down for a few seconds.Then it blows the switch.The meter on the genn. reads around 230 with the air running,when the compressor kicks in again it drops to 100/110? then blows the breaker. I do think I may have found the problem though. All the paper work for the camper say's it has a 13,550 btu ac. I went up on the roof last night and looving through the roof cover the sticker on the inside of the unit says 15,000 btu. It looks as if they may have put the bigger unit in at the factory. Has anyone run a 15,000 btu ac with this genn? what size genn. do I need for this unit? wifes not too thrilled and I don't know if pep boys will take this back.I may end up with a nice new genn. for sale.......any thoughts on if this is going to work? even with the kit installed? The ac runs fine of my 30 amp welder circut in my garage. I think the genn is 20 amp.

[jimpcon]

toprudder wrote:

sukerpooch wrote:
yes.I had EVERYTHING off but the ac,runs for a few min then trips.

You may want to check this message thread.

A "hard start" kit is an extra capacitor that you add to the start circuit of the compressor. It makes the startup quicker and use less power. I'm pretty sure the startup current is tripping the breaker.

The reason the breaker does not trip when you first turn on the AC is due to the nature of most circuit breakers. Simply described, they are thermal devices, and must heat up before they trip. When you first turn on the AC, the breaker is cold. The normal operating current will warm it up some, so that the next time the compressor starts, it will take less over-current to cause the breaker to trip.

A breaker can trip after several minutes of a small over-current condition, or trip almost instantly (a few cycles) with a very high current.

Also, the second time the compressor comes on, it may draw slightly more current than the first time since it may be starting up with some pressure already in the system.

Toprudder, thanks for that explanation. I understand what you are saying but why would some of us with the same genny, not have any problems, but sukerpooch is?? His trailer is new so you would assume he has an AC that is similar to mine and others. Could it be that he got a "lemon" with his particular "Power Pro" and its not providing enough power??

Thanks,
Jim

[toprudder]

sukerpooch wrote:
yes.I had EVERYTHING off but the ac,runs for a few min then trips.

You may want to check this message thread.

A "hard start" kit is an extra capacitor that you add to the start circuit of the compressor. It makes the startup quicker and use less power. I'm pretty sure the startup current is tripping the breaker.

The reason the breaker does not trip when you first turn on the AC is due to the nature of most circuit breakers. Simply described, they are thermal devices, and must heat up before they trip. When you first turn on the AC, the breaker is cold. The normal operating current will warm it up some, so that the next time the compressor starts, it will take less over-current to cause the breaker to trip.

A breaker can trip after several minutes of a small over-current condition, or trip almost instantly (a few cycles) with a very high current.

Also, the second time the compressor comes on, it may draw slightly more current than the first time since it may be starting up with some pressure already in the system.

[sukerpooch]

yes.I had EVERYTHING off but the ac,runs for a few min then trips.

[Capt-Ron]

Sukerpooch,
Make sure that the water heater is off or on gas, same thing with the refer. There should be enough power to run the A/C and the microwave, tv, lights, ect. without the those 2 heating elements on.

Capt Ron

[sukerpooch]

Hey guy's I need a little help here,just talked the wife into getting one of these and picked it up today........it will only run the air for one cycle then trips the breaker,wifes not too happy now.I bought the pep boys power pro 3500.............any thoughts? any help would be GREAT!.........or else im LIVING in the camper with the dog!

[ib516]

VicT, let me know, I just ordered one off of ebay. What was your final cost, to your door?

Forget it...reread your post... Looks like mine will be just under $600 CDN

[VicT]

Well this Canadian just had his delivered from Elim in buffalo. My cost was $380.00 US including shipping and the it arrived today with a COD of $79.00 Canadian for GST and Broker fees.
More intresting is when I opened the box;

Here is an exert of the email I just sent them:

The product arrived today and I really look forward to trying it. This package arrived very nicely protected for shipping and there appeared to be no damage in any way. When I opened the package however I was disappointed to notice the following:

1) The box was very oily from the inside and upon examination the oil plug/dipstick had been tighten with the rubber o ring squeezed over to one side to the point that there was a gap that would allow oil to drain if not sitting upright. I think this is caused by over tightening and I also think the O ring is one size to large.

2) The Manuel, spark plug tool, and all the male plug-in ends that are shown in the listing were not included.

3) It appeared that someone had grabbed the dashboard right where the 220/110 toggle switch is located and bent the metal dashboard outward. I doubt that this could have been done in shipping as then it would have been bent inward not outward.

4) Probably due to 3 above the toggle switch was broken and although still visible it was none functional and only being held from falling to the bottom of the box by the black plastic cover that covers the back of all the wires and switches and has a number 8 on it.

5) Due to the bend the breaker switches were also bent way to the side and looked as if they had been installed at an angle.

6) This black cover appears intact but all the little tabs are broken making it difficult or impossible to stay in place unless I use some duck tape or something like it.

This is what I have done:

1. Straightened the dashboard or metal that holds all the gauges
2. Bent the two breakers back so they look straight from both the back as well as the front.
3. Tried to repair the toggle switch and although I was able to reassemble it. I am not confident it will work because it appears very loose and the neck that comes out of the housing of the switch was popped out. I was able to put it back in but It doesn’t feel right.
4. I have not started it.

I am waiting to see how we will resolve these issues.

[ib516]

For any Canadians considering buying one of these (at least from elim international - selling on ebay), my research indicates it would cost $550 to $600 Cdn to get one to your door.

Breakdown (in Cdn funds)
Purchase - $330
Shipping - $175 (to Sask anyway)
Duty, taxes, brokerage fees - $50 to $75

I'm torn between this and the Kipor 3500 Ti or Tc.

[VicT]

Thanks I found it. I was looking to far back

[VicT]

Help I have read this forum back and forth and have learned a great deal. I know that somewhere I saw a picture of an adapter that would plug into both of the 110V outlets on the ELIM3000 and on the otherside would provide a place to plug in my 30Amp plug from the travel Trailer. I have searched back and forth and for the life of me I just can't seem to find it. Does anyone out there know on what page that was, or where I can order one. No retail outlet that I have been to in Calgary seem to know this item. Thanks in advance.

[jimpcon]

Capt-Ron wrote:

I'm going to be in Birdsboro, Pa for a week beginning July 7th, wonder if other Pep Boys up there would have any?

Capt Ron

You do have many stores close to Birdsboro.

Here is the URL for that info. I hope it works:)

http://pepboys.crossmediaservices.com/pepboys/default.aspx?action=browsestorelocation&storeid=231461...

If the link doesnt work, here are the 10 closest.

50 locations closest to Birdsboro, PA

Now showing 1-10 of 50 Locations

Pep Boys
101 Shoemaker Rd, Pottstown, PA
Tel: 610-705-0202 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
3401 Plaza Dr, Reading, PA
Tel: 610-929-1504 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
220 N Pottstown Pike, Exton, PA
Tel: 610-524-9800 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
711 E Gay St, W Chester, PA
Tel: 610-696-5339 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-8pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
222 S Westend Blvd, Quakertown, PA
Tel: 215-538-3220 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
1901 McArthur Rd, Whitehall, PA
Tel: 610-432-2515 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
2080 Lincoln Hwy, Lancaster, PA
Tel: 717-299-3335 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
55 W Germantown Pike, Norristown, PA
Tel: 610-279-6720 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
2916 Springfield Rd, Broomall, PA
Tel: 610-353-3384 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

Pep Boys
2904 Concord Pike, Talleyville, DE
Tel: 302-478-7006 | Map & Driving Directions
Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm, Saturday: 8am-8pm, Sunday: 9am-6pm View In-Store Specials at this Location

[sniffid]

I bought my Elim3000 at Pep Boys in February and it was in perfect condition. I've used it on several trips and it has worked very well even powering the AC and microwave simultaneously.

[mavapa]

I have been interested in the ELIM generator, and thought it would be a good compromise between a noisy generator with 220V that I need for my well during power outages, and a quiet camping generator. Now I wonder because it seems some have received theirs in less-than-perfect condition, or have experienced problems. Is that my imagination? How many here have received an ELIM, with good or bad results?