3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[V10guy]

I just wanted to be the 1,000th. Sorry. 🙂

[MrWizard]

ground to hot ( imbalance/difference ) NOT real

this is because of the way the generator head is wired

the 'Neutral' is not Bonded to the frame of the portable generator

this is very common, even in HONDA and other portable generators,

this very thing, has caused a lot of comments on this forum

actually you need to take your meter and read from the frame to earth ground, you should get little to ZERO reading

and read HOT to NEUTRAL for voltage

the reading you see on the meter from neutral OR hot to the ground/frame is actually a 'capacitive & inductive ' effect, like the static you feel on the from of a big picture tube

there is NO current path between the neutral and the frame or earth ground unless something in the generator shorts out

[randomo]

Pep Boys is advertising PowerPro 3500 for $319.99 (I'm jealous of everyone on here who got it months ago for $249 - $20 rebate). I'm thinking of getting either that generator or else a Pramac EG 2800 unit with a Honda engine (via eBay) for $469.

Anybody have experience with Pramac generators?

I know Honda engines are supposed to be quiet, but different sites list the EG 2800's sound output as 74 dB or 64-69 dB. Since 74 is pretty loud, I'd love to hear from anyone who's heard one of these units.

Thanks,
randomo

[V10guy]

AlaTex wrote:

V10guy wrote:
Someone explain this to me, The pictures and specs are the same for each gen. One company says 72db, one says 66db.
http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=2&FID=1&level=0
&
http://www.maxtool.com/cgi-bin/dbsearch.exe?mdb=/tools.mdb,tbl=IC_ITEMS,template=/hmpg/DPgen-3is.htm,DBCOMP=ABS,dbsort=retail,DB_CAT2=Dpgenoris


Sounds hokey.

Duro Power DP3000W Portable Generator uses 5.5 hp motor
and
PowerMax 3000 Watt 6.5 Hp OHV Gas Generator uses 6.5 hp motor

Ahh, good catch. They look exactly the same tho....

[AlaTex]

V10guy wrote:
Someone explain this to me, The pictures and specs are the same for each gen. One company says 72db, one says 66db.
http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=2&FID=1&level=0
&
http://www.maxtool.com/cgi-bin/dbsearch.exe?mdb=/tools.mdb,tbl=IC_ITEMS,template=/hmpg/DPgen-3is.htm,DBCOMP=ABS,dbsort=retail,DB_CAT2=Dpgenoris


Sounds hokey.

Duro Power DP3000W Portable Generator uses 5.5 hp motor
and
PowerMax 3000 Watt 6.5 Hp OHV Gas Generator uses 6.5 hp motor

[V10guy]

Someone explain this to me, The pictures and specs are the same for each gen. One company says 72db, one says 66db.
http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=2&FID=1&level=0
&
http://www.maxtool.com/cgi-bin/dbsearch.exe?mdb=/tools.mdb,tbl=IC_ITEMS,template=/hmpg/DPgen-3is.htm,DBCOMP=ABS,dbsort=retail,DB_CAT2=Dpgenoris


Sounds hokey.

[Hatch-TX]

New to rvnet -- first post.

I landed here after googling for info on the Pep Boys Pwer Pro generators. Good info in this thread, but WOW is it a long thread. Very hard to track down specific information/responses.

I bought the Power Pro 5500 today. Not sure if the specs were already posted somewhere in here, but here are the important items of note (from actual inspection or the manual):

• IT'S PRETTY LOUD
• IT'S PRETTY HEAVY
• 2 ea 120V duplex receptacles @ 23 amps each, 46 amps total available in 120V mode
• 1 twist lock 240V @ 23 amps.
• You either do 120V @ 23A x 2 (46 amps total) or 240V @ 23A (23 amps total), but not both at the same time
• One single 46 amp breaker for both 120V duplex
• 12V DC 8A always available
• 6.5 gallon tank, box read "10 hrs @ half load."

The generator started on the very first pull. I let it go for about an hour with AC, frig, one 110v light bulb, and the microwave plugged in. I was using a 50ft 12ga extension cord and everything worked fine; the compressor cycled off/on numerous times. I could hear the gen "throttle up" so to speak when the compressor kicked in, but it never sounded like a strain. Inside my camper with AC running I couldn't hear the gen.

First impressions: I can deal with the sound and will work on a 'keep the neighbors happy' abatement, I can overcome the weight, I love the $400 price tag, and I love having power to spare. I think I'll keep it!

[NOTE: I'm going to start a new thread so that others can add input/questions on this particular model and I can ask about some things I couldn't track down in this thread]

[ib516]

sjptak wrote:
ib516,

Thanks. Never having owned a gen, I wasn't sure how to break in. Thanks.....

I forgot to mention the time required (oops). 10 hrs to break it in.

[feistycapn]

Since this thread has attracted folks who intend to use their genset for emergency power at home, I'd like to offer a caution.

We lost a neighbor several years ago to carbon monoxide poisoning. At outward appearances he did everything right. The genset was outside in front of the garage door which was open not in an enclosed space. He went out to the garage to check on it and never came back. There was a light breeze that had filled the garage with CO.

He left a wife and two young daughters behind. I caution you to be careful and have a CO detector in any spaces in the house where CO could possibly collect.

[herbert]

new to this forum posted this a minute ago but did not show, forgive me if it posts twice

i just ordered one of these to occastionally power air conditioner/heater
3500 watts electric start 349.00
http://www.maxtool.com/cgi-bin/dbsearch.exe?mdb=/tools.mdb,tbl=IC_ITEMS,template=/hmpg/DPgen-3is.htm,DBCOMP=ABS,dbsort=retail,DB_CAT2=Dpgenoris

[herbert]

i ordered one of these a couple days ago waiting to get it
3500 watt electric start 349.00

http://www.maxtool.com/cgi-bin/dbsearch.exe?mdb=/tools.mdb,tbl=IC_ITEMS,template=/hmpg/DPgen-3is.htm,DBCOMP=ABS,dbsort=retail,DB_CAT2=Dpgenoris

[sjptak]

ib516,

Thanks. Never having owned a gen, I wasn't sure how to break in. Thanks.....

[ib516]

sjptak wrote:
ib516,
I'm planning on doing allpraisebob's rewire sometime in the near future, then I will have that toggle. Your owner's manual is much better than mine. 30 pages long, and I had to get to page 20 before it recommended to use 10W30 oil. Did you break it in under load or no?

I used SAE 30 oil in it until it was broken in, then switched to synthetic 10w-30. I sometimes use the gen in the winter (can get to -40 here:E), so I wanted the synthetic. SAE 30 at -40 degrees is like a bar of soap. I ran the gen under load, and with no load for anywhere from a few minutes or an hour at a time to break it in.

[sidst]

I've been reading these threads and believe converting the Champion 3500 to full wattage at 120 volts is very easy. However, I have not done it myself nor do I have this generator so be careful. Putting a 30 amp inline auto fuse temporarily in the line with the brown wire for testing may be a good idea to protect the generator. If it works remove it when you're happy with the way it works.


Considering the Champion 3500 generator mods, I think the easiest way to modify it for full output @ 120 volts is simply exchange the brown and white wires from the coil in the generator head. Connect the brown wire from the coil to where the white wire is now and vice-versa. If you ever want to return to 240 volt operation just switch them back again. A picture of the gen head is available on page 93 of this forum showing the connection point. The connections are bolt connections so no cutting and soldering is necessary.


Also the breakers are still being used for protection and the 120 volt sockets are unchanged and still function as designed(one 15 amp & 1 20 amp). The voltmeter should read 0 volts(not 240) because its hooked across both hots that are in phase with each other and the only thing different is the locking plug will only supply 120 volts but at a full amperage(30 amps or so). The locking plug will have a chassis ground(the largest slot) a neutral( the slot opposite the ground slot) and 2 120 volt hots( the slots next to the ground slot). One hot will be protected by the 15 amp breaker the other hot by the 20 amp breaker. Tie the 2 hots together,connect them and connect the neutral and ground to the camper and you should have 3500 watts available at 120 volts.


To have the voltmeter read 120 volts one of the voltmeter leads must be connected to a neutral line.

[55yroldkid]

I bought one of the Pep Boys Power Pro 3500's. My 5er has a 50 amp cord because I ordered it prewired for a 2nd AC unit if I decide I need it in the future. I have made a converter pigtail to convert the units twistlock 30 amp to my 50 amp cord. Two questions. When I measure across the "hots", I get the 243vac. From either of the "hots" to neutral, I get 121.5. From the "hots" to ground, I get 77.5vac on one, and the other I get 155.5vac. This is true with or without the pigtail. Why the difference? Second, Will the full wattage be available in the whole RV or is one side available only to the future 2nd AC unit?