3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[VictorB]

Hi all
First of all great thread. Informative and civil.
Secondly I was just at my local Costco, and they have a Powerwise 3500/3000 unit with wheel kit for $269, and the box says it has a 1 year warranty.
Plus Costco has one of the best return policies in retail. Don't know what their policy is once gas and oil have been put in it.
Will be inquiring tomorrow as I'm considering it, but would like to hear it run for myself.

[professor95]

Found another RV ready clone..

..... and judging from the "JD3500E" logo on the front panel, I would venture to say it is made by Jiung Dong (aka Jung Dong). This is the same company that made the early ELM3000, Cummings, Wildfire, Harbor Freight, Homier and more.

It not only has the RV plug, but it is electric start (note the battery).

My, my..... what a small world it is.

[mokanmikey]

Found another RV ready clone..

[Alohatraveler]

T_Satt(USN/SS)(Ret) wrote:
I would just like to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. Do to all the excellent posts and terrific technical explanations I have purchased one of the newer Champion C46540 RV Specials. I went to our local Shucks Auto Parts store and they ordered it for me which saved the $58.00 shipping charge I would have incurred had I ordered it online. When a store orders it for us they have it shipped along with their normal warehouse order something I learned that from the thread. I brought it home this evening, filled it with Castrol SAE 30 as the manual recommended, added some fresh gas, pushed the choke full on, took the slack out of the pull rope, and finished the pull with a nice firm tug. Started right up on the first pull! Opened the choke up and ran it for 10 minutes, again as stated in the manual. I don't know what all the ruckus is about the noise level, mine is quieter than a lot of the big class A generators that we hear. JMHO of course.

I am attaching a scan of the specs page from the owners manual. I have never tried this before so hope it works. Notice that the noise level is stated as 68dB @ 7mtrs and also for your info this genset does use brushes. The brushes are no big thing to me, I will carry a spare set just in case. During my 60 yrs on this great planet I have changed more than a couple sets of brushes in different items, (24 yrs as a Sonar Tech in Submarine Force). Oh yes before I forget both AC ckt brkrs are 15 amp. Sorry can't figure out how to enclose a scanned image. If you want it someone help me out with the details on pasting an image.

Professor you have done a superb job of maintaining a classy thread and also dispensing excellent advice. To all the rest, huzzah for showing that civility is not dead. Again thanks to all for helping me choose the Champion C46540. Sure would like to meet all of you on down the road one day.

Terry

Great to see you are happy with your purchase. Did it come with a wheel kit? Does it have any other receptacles beside the RV one?
Thanks ahead

[whopkin1]

alltenofus wrote:
More on wiring the UST with 120V 25A three prong twistlock. I called the number for International Merchandizing Service. They are clueless, but gave me a number which turned out to be Eastern Tools and Equipment. I called them and they provided the following. Looking at the plug the silver flat prong is the ground. With this at the bottom, the right copper prong is neutral and the left copper is hot. I'll check to be sure. I also directed the service rep to this thread and told him what Champion was doing with the TT 30 amp plug. He was very interested in this and the sound reduction panels. Maybe we'll get a second source.
Whats the price for the propane conversion carb? Do you have any propane usage rates yet? I have heard that mpg on propane vehicles is much less than gas. Propane would sure be convenient, though.

One doesn't convert to propane to "match" economy of gasoline, propane simply doesn't have the "energy" per unit volume of gasoline.
In comparison, it only has 74% of the energy content of gasoline.
Propane's advantage is the same reason you use it on a travel trailer or for a "storage fuel", it "doesn't go bad". The reason to use propane with a generator is the same reason you use it on a travel trailer, it'll be ready to go when you need it, you don't have to "use it soon or lose it".
Many of your questions can be answered here, this is the US Carb website where they have a couple of options, one allowing you to use both gasoline or propane/natural gas (not at the same time, but switchable). It's a commercial site, my apologies to the group.
US Carburetor Website

[alltenofus]

More on wiring the UST with 120V 25A three prong twistlock. I called the number for International Merchandizing Service. They are clueless, but gave me a number which turned out to be Eastern Tools and Equipment. I called them and they provided the following. Looking at the plug the silver flat prong is the ground. With this at the bottom, the right copper prong is neutral and the left copper is hot. I'll check to be sure. I also directed the service rep to this thread and told him what Champion was doing with the TT 30 amp plug. He was very interested in this and the sound reduction panels. Maybe we'll get a second source.

Whats the price for the propane conversion carb? Do you have any propane usage rates yet? I have heard that mpg on propane vehicles is much less than gas. Propane would sure be convenient, though.

[T_Satt_USN_SS__]

I would just like to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. Do to all the excellent posts and terrific technical explanations I have purchased one of the newer Champion C46540 RV Specials. I went to our local Shucks Auto Parts store and they ordered it for me which saved the $58.00 shipping charge I would have incurred had I ordered it online. When a store orders it for us they have it shipped along with their normal warehouse order something I learned that from the thread. I brought it home this evening, filled it with Castrol SAE 30 as the manual recommended, added some fresh gas, pushed the choke full on, took the slack out of the pull rope, and finished the pull with a nice firm tug. Started right up on the first pull! Opened the choke up and ran it for 10 minutes, again as stated in the manual. I don't know what all the ruckus is about the noise level, mine is quieter than a lot of the big class A generators that we hear. JMHO of course.

I am attaching a scan of the specs page from the owners manual. I have never tried this before so hope it works. Notice that the noise level is stated as 68dB @ 7mtrs and also for your info this genset does use brushes. The brushes are no big thing to me, I will carry a spare set just in case. During my 60 yrs on this great planet I have changed more than a couple sets of brushes in different items, (24 yrs as a Sonar Tech in Submarine Force). Oh yes before I forget both AC ckt brkrs are 15 amp. Sorry can't figure out how to enclose a scanned image. If you want it someone help me out with the details on pasting an image.

Professor you have done a superb job of maintaining a classy thread and also dispensing excellent advice. To all the rest, huzzah for showing that civility is not dead. Again thanks to all for helping me choose the Champion C46540. Sure would like to meet all of you on down the road one day.

Terry

[whopkin1]

sidst wrote:
I have a UST TG 3000 generator bought from Pep Boys in July 2005. I have been very happy with it, it is very well built and reasonably quiet. Not very noticeable at about 30 feet. You can have a normal conversation without any problems. I also switched it to propane and I think now its even quieter, I ordered the Chondra 6.5 HP conversion kit from US Carb. By the way, the carb is a clone of the Honda 6.5 HP carb(exact fit). I would definitely recommend the generator. All 120 volt output is available (25 amps) on the twist lock receptacle.

I purchased a UST last December, but the voltage and outputs are switch selectable, when 120 is selected, my four prong will not have power to it, and when 240 is selected, the 120 outlets are dead. I had to tighten the 12 vdc lugs on mine, so while I had the control panel off, I drew up my own wiring diagram. The switch is the key to whether the windings are in parallel for 120 vac, or in series for 240 vac. I think the design is pretty crafty. The switch position numbering shown is mine, the wiring labels L1, L2, R1, and R2 are actually on the wires, and the colors I used match the colors of the wires used. Notice that mine uses two 16A breakers mechanically ganged, one in each winding, not a single 25A.

The only consistency I've found, when talking about Chinese 3KW gensets, is that you'll not see a lot of consistency, even between gensets of the same model. From your description, your UST TG 3000 is different than my UST TG-3000, which is different than the ELIM 3000, which is different than the ETQ TG-3000 (my neighbor got one of those in late 2004).

[sidst]

I have a UST TG 3000 generator bought from Pep Boys in July 2005. I have been very happy with it, it is very well built and reasonably quiet. Not very noticeable at about 30 feet. You can have a normal conversation without any problems. I also switched it to propane and I think now its even quieter, I ordered the Chondra 6.5 HP conversion kit from US Carb. By the way, the carb is a clone of the Honda 6.5 HP carb(exact fit). I would definitely recommend the generator. All 120 volt output is available (25 amps) on the twist lock receptacle.

[Clark_W__Griswo]

We just finished a long weekend of boondocking and the ELIM 3000 ran like a dream. It really served us well. We enjoyed watching the NCAA tournament games in the camper!
I had many inquiries about the unit as well.

The only thing I would like to do is add another battery so that I can add some time to my battery life. It was in the 30's at night and the furnace ran quite a bit and the battery was spent by sunrise.

The best $279 I have spent in a long time!

[larryslocum]

Professor: Your advice to replace my motorhomes' converter was well appreciated, and like everyone else who participates here I am benefiting significantly from this knowledge. Circumstances dictated otherwise however, as my "old Champion" was malfunctioning and I was able to exchange it for the new "RV Ready" model at my local Kragens.

A couple of things about it:

1. The new 30 amp RV plug works like a dream and allows the RV to draw the needed amps from the gen as it always should of been able to all along.
2. The "sine wave problem" that I experienced with my previous Champion in that my converter did not like the old gens wave form seems to of disappeared as the new Champion is putting out a battery life saving 13.6 volts (versus 12.2) as of this writing and increasing every day.
3. The RV ready Champion seems to not come with a wheel kit or tote handle as standard issue and fortunately they let me cannibalize mine from the oldie.
4. The shipping box indicates this new model is 68db versus the 76db of the older model which I suspect needs to be tested as I could hear no discernable difference in noise levels between the two. It is still a noisy generator that will not garner favorable raves from fellow campers.

All in all though, I am grateful that they exchanged it as the old one was killing my batteries and the RV model seems to be giving them new life. Cheers to all.

[professor95]

I guess time will tell if it (the UST)is a reliable unit.I cannot tell yet if they have just wired one field winding to the 25A plug (and are stretching the winding capability) or if they really have the two windings in parallel. Since there is no 220V plug maybe they just have one larger winding. I'm going to call the numbers for Customer Service Monday and see if they will send a wiring diagram.

You must have a minimum of two electrically complete windings to produce the alternating current sine wave (180 degrees). When connected in series, these two windings electrically create a single winding. I use the term electrically since the actual number of windings or coils almost always exceeds just two.

If your generator does not have 220 volts available, it is almost a given that the two windings would be in parallel rather than series - especially if it is routed to a single 25 amp outlet.
While possible, I have not encountered a 120 volt only Chinese generator that splits the 120 between two output circuits and omits the 220 output.

I strongly suspect the UST is a JD built unit, but have been unable to actually confirm this.

[alltenofus]

Thanks for the link to the NEMA plugs. It looks like a NEMA L10-20 or L10-30. The markings, though, are 25A, 250V. The silver straight prong with the small tit on it is marked W like the NEMA diagram. The other two are gold and have an arc to their shape.They are the same length. They are not marked X and Y. I'll have to get the voltmeter out or pull the panel and see if I can figure out from the U plugs how the locking one is wired.

By the way, I called PartsAmerica and they said the Champion was not available through the Advance Auto Stores. Looks like in some parts of the country not served by Checker/Kragen/Shucks that design wise the best alternative to the RV ready Champion is the UST at Pepboys, if you want to buy instore and not pay shipping. I guess time will tell if it is a reliable unit.I cannot tell yet if they have just wired one field winding to the 25A plug (and are stretching the winding capability) or if they really have the two windings in parallel. Since there is no 220V plug maybe they just have one larger winding. I'm going to call the numbers for Customer Service Monday and see if they will send a wiring diagram.

[professor95]

Questions: There's no instructions for wiring the 3 prong twist plug. I have to suppose the L shaped locking prong is the ground. With an ungrounded unit I should still see low voltage from the neutral to ground as per a household plug? THen 120 or so on the hot to ground and then hot to neutral? The other two prongs are identical - no color coding. Someone mentioned they had wired this up but I could not locate the post when I went back to look.

Has anyone found a wiring diagram or a website for these units. I get nothing on searches for the importer or UST.

My guess is you have the NEMA #L5-30, but it could be different. This type outlet is only certified for 120 volts (not for use on 220). The G is ground (earth), the W is neutural and the unmarked slot is hot. Keep in mind that on these generators that the gound and neutural are not bonded together. If you want ground (actually, grounding) drive a pipe or rod in the dirt and bond the generator frame to it.

Look here to find other NEMA locking outlets that might be used.

I hope this helps you get the wiring done safely. As you know, when working with power, never "suppose" anything!

[Alohatraveler]

jeebs08 wrote:
So, I just purchased the "RV" edition of the Champion. It is very loud. Does anyone have any advice on how to muffle the sound? Do they make mufflers to attach to the existing one?

Where did you buy it from? I'd like to see the RV version in person. Thanks ahead.