3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

JohnJohn wrote:
Do you know if these brands are the same as the ELIM3000 that has been talked about?

Will they run a 13500 BTU AC?

All of the units you listed have been purchased and run hundreds of hours by contributors to this forum. As far as I know, everyone has been happy with their purchases.

The Jiang Dong unit is the one most similar to the original ELM3000. It is also comparable to the unit mentioned in the previous posting where the owner cannot get it to start his AC.

As to yor question, "Will it run a 13.5K BTU AC? It should. It has on dozens and dozens other campers. But, as we are currently seeing, not everyone is 100% successful.

According to the small print on infomercials, "Individual results may vary."

[professor95]

elking wrote:
Professor95. I plugged a 1400 watt coffee pot and an 1800 watt hair dryer into the above mentioned generator no problems, just a slight increase in engine rpm. My rv is a brand new 2006 25.5 ft. prowler with a 13,500 btu RVP series 8000 a/c unit. The compressor on the a/c unit has a LRA of 54 amps. Does that mean I have to have a surge rating of 6,000 watts to get the a/c unit to even start? 54 * 110 = 5,940. If so does anyone else out there have the same problem getting thier a/c units to start? It is starting to appear that I maybe under powered. Any thoughts?

We have 1/2 of the testing done. Plugging the coffee pot and hairdryer in at the same time confirms that the generator is capable of providing the rated wattage to a resistive load.

I believe it is important to try the "second" test as well. On more occasions than I can count on my fingers and toes, parasitic loads inside the camper electric system from items such as the the electric heater in the frig, an electric water heater element accidentally left on on or the 120 to 12 VDC converter supplying a high current load have kept a generator or circuit from running an AC.

Pure speculation here, but the fact that the Air Conditioner is new could contribute to higher starting current loads as well. This would not be normal, but tight bearings, rings or seals in new equipment can sometimes add to the problem. Sort of like an engine - they need to be "broken in". I have a similar AC on my 2005 Prowler, except it is 15K BTU. My ELM3000 is comparable to your Homier unit and in all probability was built on the same assembly line. My system worked - yours should too.

Do you have a fellow camper handy who has a similar AC? If so, will the generator start another unit?

You are correct in computing the surge wattage for the LRA rating. But, unless a motor is extremely tight or loads a lesser wattage should get it rolling.

MrWizard should be able to add some additional insight to this starting current/load question. Hopefully, he will jump in here.

In summary, you should not need a larger generator than you purchased. Through the process of elimination we need to isolate where the problem is (camper's parasitic loads, AC start current requirement or generator capacity). It is a pain, but keep on course with the testing to isolate the problem.

[JohnJohn]

Professor95 or anyone else who's been following these Chinese Gens.,

I have recently read most of this thread. Very interesting stuff. I was just at PepBoys and saw a generator similar to the one you've been talking about and was wondering if this one I saw (actually the 2 different brands) were like the ones like the ELIM3000.

One is under the brand name All-Power from a company called Jiangsu Jiangdong Group Co., LTD (Jiansu Jiangdong)

The other is under the brand name Power Pro by Wen Power. (A picture of this model.
Another similiar model of the Wen. https://www.wenproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=85

Do you know if these brands are the same as the ELIM3000 that has been talked about?

Will they run a 13500 BTU AC?

Regards...

Btw, they are both selling for $329.

[Accurate]

Ken_Romer wrote:
I started up my new Champion Generator tonight and tested it with a cir saw. Worked great no isuues. The documentation is a little sparse on what the Spark Plug arrestor does??

Ken: The Spark Arrestor does just that. Prevents sparks from exiting the
muffler and creating a potential fire hazard in dry brush areas where the
Genset is used,be it be camping or otherwise. Such as in my case out building a deer stand in the woods.

KenS

[Ken_Romer]

I started up my new Champion Generator tonight and tested it with a cir saw. Worked great no isuues. The documentation is a little sparse on what the Spark Plug arrestor does??

[elking]

Professor95. I plugged a 1400 watt coffee pot and an 1800 watt hair dryer into the above mentioned generator no problems, just a slight increase in engine rpm. My rv is a brand new 2006 25.5 ft. prowler with a 13,500 btu RVP series 8000 a/c unit. The compressor on the a/c unit has a LRA of 54 amps. Does that mean I have to have a surge rating of 6,000 watts to get the a/c unit to even start? 54 * 110 = 5,940. If so does anyone else out there have the same problem getting thier a/c units to start? It is starting to appear that I maybe under powered. Any thoughts?

[professor95]

elking wrote:
Profeesor95. On page 194 of this thread there is a poster by the name of Hgarraway that has a LINK to the exact generator I've been referring to in the above post's. Please let me know what you think of the description of that generator. Thank You!

OK.... I believe I have all the ducks in a row now. My apologies.... see, when you said "Contractor" I immediately thought of a generator someone had thrown a Briggs engine and a generator head together on an open frame. Now I see "Contractor" is the label Homier is using. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.

Homier markets a generator built by JiangDong. It is my belief that JD builds a pretty fair product that lives up to published ratings.

The generator you have should indeed run a 13.5K BTU RV model airconditioner. I am not so sure it would run your air compressor. I would need more specs on your air compressor to make an assessment. Did you mention the year and model of your RV air conditioner? That might also give me some more clues as to what to look for.

I suggest you go back to my last posting and run the two tests I suggested. These tests will tell us if there is a problem with parasitic loads on the circuit with the AC when connected to the camper. It will also confirm if the generator is producing the rated power.

As far as peak watts vs. surge watts, there still continues to be a lot of confusion on what is what. Unfortunately, some advertisers simply confuse them and innocently interchange the values. Others do it on purpose to make you believe you are getting more than you really are. This confusion makes it hard on the consumer to know what he is really getting. On your generator I believe the 4,000 watt rating is meant to imply surge watts, not peak. This would be good.

(Another lesson learned on my part about jumping to conclusions! 🐵

[elking]

Profeesor95. On page 194 of this thread there is a poster by the name of Hgarraway that has a LINK to the exact generator I've been refering to in the above post's. Please let me know what you think of the desciption of that generator. Thank You!

[professor95]

elking wrote:
Professor95. To follow up on the Contractor Line Generator(also sold by Homier)I performed the voltage check that you described on page 206 of this thread to the poster "icecutter" whom is having the same problem I'm having.(also the same generator). The voltage across the two 120 volt outlets on the short side is in fact 0 volts. So I'm to assume the coil is wired in parallel and that each outlet should supply full current to each outlet? Please advise. Thanks!

If your test showed zero volts between the two short slots, the generator should indeed be wired so that the coils are in parallel.

You are refering to this generator as a "contractor" set. Therefor I am assuming it is not the 2,800 watt Chinese built unit with the 5.5 Honda engine clone. Giving more specific detail (model #) would help to better understand your situation. I can then look up the unit on Homier's web site.

There is a big difference between peak and surge watts - the difference is like night and day. I do not know if the manufacturer or person who drew up the advertising really knows the difference. Surge watts is the amount of specified current that can be sustained at the rated voltage for a specific period of time - usually 2-3 seconds. Peak watts is meaningless in this respect.

Compressor motors can put a real strain on a generator when starting if they cannot supply adequate power to get the motor rolling. Resistive loads come on slowly and generally do not strain the generator like a motor.

Just to test the capacity of the system, you might try plugging in two small electric heaters. At least one should be able to switch between 1,000 and 1,500 watts. Start with one on 1,500 watts, then add the second at 1,000 watts. If the generator sustains the load it is putting out 2,500 watts - close to the rated 2,800. Your total voltage drop should not exceed 5% of the unloaded reading. Kick in the extra 500 watts to bring the total to 3,000 watts. If the breaker holds, you should see 3-4 volts drop on the output to around 105-108 VAC. The breaker should eventually trip after a few minutes.

If you pass the above test, you will know the generator is OK, but cannot supply the "surge" wattage needed to get the appliances you tried to power rolling. There is nothing you can do to the generator to improve this.

If possible, you might also try plugging the AC directly into the generator, bypassing the camper entirely. Turn on the AC fan first, then kick in the compressor a few seconds later. If you cannot plug the AC in directly, be sure you have your refrigerator either on propane or off, the converter unplugged and no electric water heater elements glowing. Parasitic loads in the camper can make a big, big difference is total load.

Please let me know your results.

[elking]

Professor95. To follow up on the Contractor Line Generator(also sold by Homier)I performed the voltage check that you described on page 206 of this thread to the poster "icecutter" whom is having the same problem I'm having.(also the same generator). The voltage across the two 120 volt outlets on the short side is in fact 0 volts. So I'm to assume the coil is wired in parallel and that each outlet should supply full current to each outlet? Please advise. Thanks!

[elking]

The contractor line generator has only two 120 volt outlets. The owners manual I received with the genset states the 120 volt outlets supply 25 amp service. There is no 240 volt service on this genset. This is also in the operation manual " Electrical Requirements: 6.5hp 2800 watt w/peak surge wattage of 4000w. Any thoughts?

[professor95]

borrowed a genny from my girlfriend's dad and it did the exact same thing. However, his doesn't supply 240V, so I thought there might be a chance that the full output might be available from one outlet. No such luck.

Good point.

We have encountered some generators that do NOT have a 240 outlet but still use internally derived 240 volt power and then split the output between two separate 120 outlets.

Always get a wiring diagram when buying a generator you do not have previous performance facts on. If you do not know how to interpret the diagram, post it to this forum so that it can be disected for you. Folks who frequent this forum are always glad to help.

[okiebryan]

I borrowed a genny from my girlfriend's dad and it did the exact same thing. However, his doesn't supply 240V, so I thought there might be a chance that the full output might be available from one outlet. No such luck.

My RV Ready Champion is sitting on hold at Cabela's, waiting on me to get down there and pick it up... Thank you so much for doing all this work and giving the tech advice so that I would know what to buy.

[professor95]

purchased a contractor line genset from ebay rated at 4000 peak and 2800 watts. But when I try to run my a/c unit in my 5th wheel the voltage meter on the genset drops to 50-60 volts, and the 27 amp breaker on the genset trips. I thought maybe I have a problem with my a/c unit so I plugged my air compressor into it and the same thing happens!( rated at 12.5 amps at 110 volts). Any thoughts about what could be wrong with this generator?

While I have not seen your generator, I have a pretty good feeling about what is happening. This is an issue that has been extensively discussed on this forum for well over a year - I wish you could have read the discussion sooner and saved yourself a lot of grief.

Most all of these "contractor" generators deliver both 240 and 120 volts. Thus, the windings in the generator are in series. This means that you only have 1/2 of the total available power at 120 volts, which is 1,400 watts or around 12 amps. Starting current on your AC and air compressor can be more than double the run current. The peak power rating is meaningless. You see, the 2,800 watts is an RMS value, to get peak current or voltage on ANY AC source, we multiply the RMS value by 1.414, which will equal your 4,000 watt peak rating (give or take a little). This is NOT a surge current rating. The only reason for putting the peak power rating on the generator is to confuse you and make you think you are buying something more powerful than it really is. Unfortunately, a lot of advertisers are doing this. I cannot begin to fathom why you would have a 27 amp breaker on your unit. At most, you should have two 12 amp breakers.

Your only hope is to return your generator or undertake a rewiring to place the coils in parallel.

Sorry!

[elking]

I purchased a contractor line genset from ebay rated at 4000 peak and 2800 watts. But when I try to run my a/c unit in my 5th wheel the voltage meter on the genset drops to 50-60 volts, and the 27 amp breaker on the genset trips. I thought maybe I have a problem with my a/c unit so I plugged my air compressor into it and the same thing happens!( rated at 12.5 amps at 110 volts). Any thoughts about what could be wrong with this generator?