3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

I let mine charge my batteries for 5 hours, then did the oil change,

the recommended regular changes are every 100 hrs, I full time , so i change every couple of weeks, better to do it earlier than later

[Oldfordman]

code3run wrote:
I have a new champion 3500w rv ready. How much break in does it need?
thanks

The recommendation is 5 hours for the first oil change. There is no recommendation for "reduced load" during that time. On mine, I oiled it, fueled it, started it, and used it for a couple of hours to power my "Weed Eater" while I trimmed the yard. It gave it a little load (albeit not a big one) while it ran. I also ran my TT A/C for an hour, just to see how it would do. Total time playing around was 3-4 hours so I went ahead and changed oil. To date it doesn't burn a drop.

[bobandcat]

Go to Champion site and look at their 3500 watt non RV model for their dimensional data. http://www.cpeauto.com/de3500w_gen.htm.

However, I measured my genset and the width of mine was significantly different. Mine was 23 1/4"L x 17 5/8"W x 17 1/4"H. It is almost an inch wider than what CPE quoted.

[code3run]

I have a new champion 3500w rv ready. How much break in does it need?
thanks

[subcamper]

Does anyone have the outside dimensions of the Champion C46540 generator that is so popular on this site? I checked the net and even the Champion site doesn't give any dimensions.

Last year I built a "gas vapor proof" box for my ELM3000 so when I put it in the back of the Suburban it didn't stink it up with gas fumes. Unfortunately, the ELM3000 died (looks like a shorted rotor or diodes on the rotor) and the ELM tech line doesn't return my calls (they have an answering machine). I wanted to see if I could buy another rotor. My ELM3000 is from the original Chinese manufacturer that they used but no longer is their supplier (Jiang Dong?) so they probably don't have any replacement parts left anyway. So I'll just write it off as a 2-year use $229 generator and probably buy the Champion. The reason I need the dimensions is to see if it would fit in my box.

Thanks for the help
Steve

[Yoslick]

I use synthetic (Amsoil) in all my engines, have had very good results except for 1 high mileage truck that I tried it in, had about 100k on it when I got it and the synthetic oil turned it into a sprinkler system, leaks every where!! The 2000 watt Genny unit I showed has approximately 500 hours on it now and shows no signs of any problems, still runs about 8 hours on a tank, no oil consumption, still starts on 1 pull, I change it after every weekend of use as all it takes is about a half a quart which I will probably do with the new Champion model as well. Oh here's a question, whats the thread size on the oil drain plug? It's not pipe thread, I want to extend it with a nipple so it will be easier and cleaner when doing oil changes.. Thanks

Slick

[SonicLogic]

One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.

To wit:

Motor Oil for Honda Lawnmower

"I just purchased a new Honda lawnmower. It is a 6.5 hp air cooled, self propelled, walk behind model. Which, if any, Mobil 1 synthetic oils would be best for this application? Honda recommends 10W-30 API SJ or later. I would prefer to use a synthetic as I do in my other cars. Thank You"
-- Bob DeGuiseppe, Glen Ellyn, IL


Answer:
I would use either Mobil 1 10W-30 or Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30. Either product will provide great protection for your lawn mower.


http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Lawnmower_Oil.aspx

[77charger]

Yoslick wrote:
Had to get one after all the good reports.



Already had the 2000 watt version for about a year now and it has been great but I wanted to be able to run my A/C now that we have gone from a pop up to a 26' Dutchman.



Did a 3 hour break in today with a small load and Synthetic oil (came dry) gonna change it tomorrow and also mount some wheels on it!

Great post all!!

Slick

synthetic is usually not good for break in.Doesnt let the rings seat properly.Too slick

but if it seems to work then leave it alone IMO

[MrWizard]

I think it's already on here

I'll see if i can find it

also i might have it someplace

[bobandcat]

If anyone has the wiring diagram for the Champion 46535 genset, please post it to this forum for me. THANKS!

CHAMPION PROVIDED THE WIRING DIAGRAM. THANKS ALL!

[Yoslick]

Had to get one after all the good reports.



Already had the 2000 watt version for about a year now and it has been great but I wanted to be able to run my A/C now that we have gone from a pop up to a 26' Dutchman.



Did a 3 hour break in today with a small load and Synthetic oil (came dry) gonna change it tomorrow and also mount some wheels on it!

Great post all!!

Slick

[Oldfordman]

Keep it oiled and ready to go. You never know when mother nature may turn out the lights. Mine sits in the shed, just waiting for gas so I can be back watching the races or Football Game when the wind takes out the power. I just leave the shed doors open while it is running and the noise is almost totally contained. With two 3'X4" doors open there is no heat or CO buildup to worry about.

It will run my TV, Furnace, and Microwave, all at the same time. If I have an extended outage, I can plug in the refer/freezer until it is cold again (Then it's good for another 24 hrs). Just have to wait to heat anything with the Microwave.

[WaltinColo]

The Test!

Ok, so i pull the new Champion C46540 outta the box and check it over....everything looks fine.
Fill it up with 10w-30 and about a gallon of gas.
Drag it out into the yard....ya, this thing is heavy...wheels will surely be in my future..heh :C
I bought a little LCD hobbs meter for the thing at Grainger, and will hook it up to the 12vdc side, but i just wanna get the thing working before i start to install options, so i come up with the idea of hooking up the battery charging clips to it as a temp way to keep atrack of the run time. Worked great!
Ill prob never use the 12vdc to charge a battery anyway, as ill just use my 3-stage charger for that.
Give it a pull...nope... hit the choke, 2 more pulls and it fires right up! 🙂
Sounds good! And pretty dern quite too! While it isnt as quiet as a Honda, i saved over $1500 bucks on this Champion, and i can take a few db's louder, no problem! I will however house it eventually to cut back the noise abit before the spring camping season arrives. Everyone is right.. the muffler is pretty quiet already and it is indeed the mechanical sound that need to be quieted down... Thinking now, the way the honda's are quieter surely must mostly be due to the plastic housing they have around em...
A friend has a Yamaha 2800, and I would say they are pretty close in sound levels when both are running full bore..
I let it run for about 15 mins... the then hook my Kill-a-Watt upto the 120vac side.
I see these readings.
VAC = 127
Hz = 63

I then then plug in a 1875 watt hair dryer.
It doesnt even break stride. 🙂

I then get these readings while running the hair dryer:
VAC = 128
Hz = 61.2
AMP = 14
Watts = 1814

Seems to work great!

I let it run like that for about 10 mins and all seems well!
Time for a Real test!

I pull out the pup and open it up...
I hook the pup into the 30amp RV plug and move the kill-a-watts into the pup and plug it into a 120.
Im reading 124 VAC and 61 Hz in the pup.
I also notice the converter is running, no problem.
The Champion is running along smoothly as i turn on a few lights and all looks great!

I then decide to fire up the new Carrier 13.5 A/C i installed over the summer.

First on just fan... no problems at all.
Then switch it over to a/c low... i then dial the thermostat over to its coldest setting...
nothing... hmm.. the compressor doesnt seem to be kicking in?
Wierd... So im sitting there wondering about that for a min or so when i realize, "Hey, bone head... its 50 degrees out here"!! 🙂
I guess it needs it to be alittle warmer to use an a/c huh? heh

Hey... i know!
I turn off the a/c and power up the furnace!!
Yup, it fires right up no problem and 10 mins later its now 60+ in the pup. 🙂

Ok.... furnace off, a/c on.

In kicks the a/c, and with a little jump in Champion sound, the a/c is purring along, no problem! 🙂

Course it doesnt take long for the a/c to make it too cold to run again and the compressor kicks back off...
Success!

Ok.. the real test! I turn off the a/c and crank the furnace back up!
I sure my neighbors are now wondering... whats this idiot doing out there?
Once i hit in the 60's again....off goes the furnace and on comes the a/c on high.
The Champions growls abit, but fires it right up, no problem!

This thing is great!!! 🙂

Now, mind you, this thing is like 4 feet away from the pup while im playing, and im starting to think...geese, this thing is kinda louder then i want now that im hearing it for over an hour..... that sound box will surely be built.
I then decide a beer is in order, so i walk into the garage, about 40 foot away.... and while im in there i think....geese, did the gen die?
I walk back out, get alittle closer, and then I hear it again.... hey...actually, this thing isnt that loud after all.. 🙂

One more test just to make sure all is good in the world...
I crank the furnace back up and hit 60..
I now leave the furnace on, and crank the a/c on high at the same time...

The Champion starts surging....hmm.... then.... poof... it dies..
Waaa... whats wrong?! I was sure it could handle that...

I unload everything... and pull the handle on the gen... nothing...
I pull it again...
nothing...
oh no.. whats happened... did i kill the thing already?

...i look inside... no gas, idiot! Haha! 🙂
Ya, i ran it outta gas...... or atleast almost... the ground wasnt perfectly level, and i had it slightly leaning away from the fuel outlet...
I tip it just abit in the other direction... pull it and off it goes again!

Brilliant! 🙂

Off i go again to run my test, and it ran the pup with both the furnace and a/c on high, no problem!
I situation im sure i wont duplicate in the real world.. heh.

So now i just wanna let it run outta gas and shut down.
It runs... n runs, and im like....is this thing ever gonna run outta gas?!
I decide what the heck, so i hook up my battery charger and top off my group 24. Might as well get some done while im waiting!

As the hobbs clicks over to 2.1 hours, the gen finally gives off a slight pitch change, so i unload it, and sure enough, after a few surges, it finally runs outta gas!

This thing appears to work Great!

While the output was alittle high while unloaded, as soon as even the smallest load was applied, it settled down to around 60-61 Hz and around 124-128 Vac.

Even when i kicked in the a/c on high, the voltage never even for a moment dropped below 123vac.

Next? Deff wheels! While im a big boy, this thing is heavy, and wheeling it around sure sounds easier.. heh
And deff a sound enclosure, hopefully the one Champion will come out with, so i hear, in the near future.

If this gen, with the enclosure, can get down to around 60db, i see no reason at all for spending $1900 on a gen.
Surely over time, gen's, such as this Champion, will surely hurt the expensive guys market share...

Folks, this gen is pretty sweet, and i wouldnt hesitate to recommend it to anyone. 🙂
Even my Yamaha 2800 friend was staring at it in the box wondering about the $1200 he had spent.. :W

....oh.. btw, should i leave the oil in the thing over the winter?
I thought no at first, but then i thought... should i start it up once a month or so n put a 30 mins load on it? In which case, id leave the oil in it...

Walt

[tommyj3]

The Gentron 3500 RV is 23 X 17 X 18 inchs

[Tregaskis]

I think I have narrowed it down to 2 units I am thinking about.
The Champion 4000 RV model that CSK has on sale for $299.00 or the
Gentron 3500 Pro RV model (electric start) that GeneratorDepot has for $449.00.
Since I cannot get my hands on either one, can anyone tell me what the overall height is on either one of these? I plan on semi-permanent install in the bed of my 05 Dodge pickup with an electric tonneau cover over it. That limits my available height to right about 18".
Also am presuming Champion is a pull start model...is that right?
Not sure if electric start is worth the 150.00 or not but it would save climbing in and out of the pickup bed.
Appreciate any input.
Thanks
Greg