3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[toprudder]

tomsalval wrote:
Could someone explain how a mfg makes a given generator quieter than another generator? -- or at least point me to something - perhaps this thread explains it but I haven't gotten thru it yet. Thanks.

The most obvious thing is a quiet muffler. A less obvious thing is an intake muffler (or large intake filter that helps muffle the intake noise). The quietest generators also have enclosures that help reduce the mechanical noise created in various parts of the engine and generator head.

You will always hear the most predominant noise, and on contractor grade generators this would be the exhaust noise. These generators have very minimal muffling.

[tomsalval]

Could someone explain how a mfg makes a given generator quieter than another generator? -- or at least point me to something - perhaps this thread explains it but I haven't gotten thru it yet. Thanks.

[Index_Jeff]

Professor, if I may...

About the middle of this thread you showed your propane conversion, done on an old red generac 5000.

My friends have that exact same generator.

Does that give full wattage from one outlet ?

If not, how would that be re-wired so that full wattage could be gotten from one 110v outlet ?

While I am at it, I'll ask again... How does the "gallons per hour", or "hours per gallon", compare between running that on gasoline, and running it on propane ?

[Index_Jeff]

Why does everybody keep calling this THREAD, a FORUM ?

The forum is where this thread is located.

This thread is where our posts are located.

[Index_Jeff]

I emailed Champion a couple days ago with a simple question, and they have not gotten back to me yet. So, I guess I'll ask the question here. LOL

Some generators have a limit on how long they can be continuously run.

Does the Champion C46540 have any such limit ?

I have had 5 power outages in the past two months. The longest was for 6 days. The next to longest was for 4, then 3. The shortest was just over 12 hours.

Is running the champion continuously for days like that, going to damage the generator ?

[WaltinColo]

WaltinColo wrote:
FYI..
I just ordered a wheel kit and cover for my 3500 directly from Champion at 877-338-0999 ...
If you use the option 1 then 2, youll get connected to the Calif office and it was cheaper..atleast for me..

It'll come outta Calif to me in Colorado...
It will be $67 total, including shipping...
Just for info, i found that ordering just the wheel kit would cost $41 with shipping ($29 for the kit), so that ebay price isnt so bad after all...

Walt

FYI.. it just came in yesterday. 🙂
Now i can wheel it around n cover it when needed too!

....hmm thinking here....
I could add a seat, a steering wheel, and electric moter to it, and ride it around the campground!!! 🙂

That would be sweet.... snicker.. 🙂

Walt

[MrWizard]

Also, it wasn't explicitly stated in the manual, but does the 240120 switch on the control panel energize one or the other between the 240 or the RV outlet?

Finally, has anyone created a website or consolidated some useful instructions/pictures/diagrams for popular modifications to this Champion unit? Right now I'm wondering about building my own wheel kit and have seen references on prior pages to others who have done this, but not the actual description of how they did it.

yes it switches the outlets, there is NO 120 when in the 240 mode

AFAIK , no on the specific website

Do I need to tie the two (neutral and ground)together? I want to be able to use it for an emergency home generator, after I get a safety disconnect switch installed, of course.
I was surprised at the lack of the ground terminal not being wired.

NO do not wire the neutral and ground together, is will make the frame of the generator electrically HOT something you to NOT want

yes you can add a wire from the GRD lug of the 4 wire twist lock to the generator frame, DO NOT, wire the neutral & grd together

[Oldfordman]

tonyclifton wrote:
Woohoo! Tractor Supply came through and price matched partsamerica. I will fire it up this weekend and break her in.

oldfordman, thanks for the input on using the RV receptacle. I'm assuming the 120v RV receptacle is wired just like a 'standard' 120v outlet with a hot leg, neutral and ground? And I would first wire up one 20 amp duplex outlet, then wire jumpers to the second outlet?

Also, it wasn't explicity stated in the manual, but does the 240<-->120 switch on the control panel energize one or the other between the 240 or the RV outlet?

Finally, has anyone created a website or consolidated some useful instructions/pictures/diagrams for popular modifications to this Champion unit? Right now I'm wondering about building my own wheel kit and have seen references on prior pages to others who have done this, but not the actual description of how they did it.

Thanks!!!! 🙂

The answer is yes, it is standard with a Hot, Neutral, and Ground. I wired my outlets by running the #10 wire to one outlet and then jumpered to the second with #12 wire. I used 120V 20 Amp Commercial grade outlets (the $3.50 ones at Home Depot instead of the $.97 ones). Any voltage drop from the 6-8" of #12 wire will be unimportant because of the short length.

The 120/240 volt switch is used to parallel the windings of the generator so it will give full output to the 30 Amp Receptical. When in the 120 V position you will have no 240 V output and vice-versa.

If you want a real neat "wheel kit", consider a Nursery Cart like this More expensive than a wheel kit in itself ($79 @ Lowes) but it will carry both the genset and spare fuel cans. It can also be used for hauling Firewood, Groceries, or Grandkids:W

[jwitt]

Hello, I have a safety question.
A few posts back, there was a mention of generators with the 240 v twist lock not having the ground terminal wired. My Champion "RV" has both the ground and the neutral of the 240v twist lock wired.
However,I have a second generator that has a 240v twist lock. The neutral leg of the receptacle is wired but the ground leg is not wired.
Do I need to tie the two (neutral and ground)together? I want to be able to use it for an emergency home generator, after I get a safety disconnect switch installed, of course.
I was surprised at the lack of the ground terminal not being wired.
I also bring this up for general info because if one was to plug in, say a 240v welder with three wires, ground, and the two 120v leads, it would lack a ground and a neutral connection. There may be other gen sets out there with the ground not being wired on the 240v twist lock..... Thanks, JIM

[Yoslick]

I made my wheel kit from a 2-wheel wheel barrow kit from tractor supply, cost me about $25 otd. Came with the bushings, wheels (pneumatic), axle shaft (which I cut to length) and was a snap to instal as the axle holders were the same bolt pattern as the genny. If you bought the Champion RV ready model I don't think there's any additional mod's you need to do other than making a pig tail to fit either the 120 plug or RV plug so you can have multiple outlets... Read the link to the Chinese Gen posts, it's long but it's all in there...

Slick

[tonyclifton]

Woohoo! Tractor Supply came through and price matched partsamerica. I will fire it up this weekend and break her in.

oldfordman, thanks for the input on using the RV receptacle. I'm assuming the 120v RV receptacle is wired just like a 'standard' 120v outlet with a hot leg, neutral and ground? And I would first wire up one 20 amp duplex outlet, then wire jumpers to the second outlet?

Also, it wasn't explicity stated in the manual, but does the 240<-->120 switch on the control panel energize one or the other between the 240 or the RV outlet?

Finally, has anyone created a website or consolidated some useful instructions/pictures/diagrams for popular modifications to this Champion unit? Right now I'm wondering about building my own wheel kit and have seen references on prior pages to others who have done this, but not the actual description of how they did it.

Thanks!!!! 🙂

[Index_Jeff]

professor95 wrote:
For several years now I have wanted to convert my "contractor" series 5000 Watt Generac home back-up generator to propane.

Professor,

I have spent the last two days reading to the halfway mark in this thread. I would like to ask a question that I know may well be answered in the second half of the thread, but would like to have the answer to before two days from now. LOL

😉

How does the "gas mileage", (Or would that be "Gas hourage" ???), compare between gasoline, and propane.

Having run the gen on gas for a long time, and now having the chance to run on propane for a while, I figure you are in a unique position to answer this question.

[SonicLogic]

Max Tool sells the XP 3500 for $350.00 shipped to your door. I got one last year when they were still only $299.00. You can sometimes find even a lower price on these generators from Max Tool on Ebay.

The generators they sell are the PowerWise brand made by Jiangdong in China. They are top quality units. Good luck!

[tonyclifton]

Nope, I don't have any of those stores 😞

I have an Advance Auto, but they said they don't sell generators (even though I've seen references to other Advance Auto's that do sell them via the retail store).

I have a Tractor Supply, currently asking $399+tax, although I saw references here that at least one Tractor Supply sold it on sale this week for less.

I will go back to my Tractor Supply and see if the manager will work me a deal. I've bought numerous large power tools from them (welder, bandsaw, etc.) and would love to give him about $350 for that gen.

[bobandcat]

tonyclifton wrote:

Is the C46535 still available, and is it a better choice? The Champion website shows it already on wheels, and possibly has better outlets for my expected usage. But I don't see it at partsamerica!


Thanks!

Tony

If you have a Checker Auto, Kragen, Schucks or Murray's in your area, they may sell both the 46540 and the 46535. I believe that the above mentioned stores are all part of the same corp.

The 46535 has one duplex 120v outlet on a 20 amp circuit breaker and the other duplex 120v outlet on a 15 amp circuit breaker. This should be fine for you if you were just going to run the 30A/120V outlet on the RV model to a 4 outlet box. Same results, no extra expenses, no extra work.

If you were so inclined, you could also rewire the 46535 windings in parallel and have the full 30amps to both of the duplex plugs in the outlet panel. This would also eliminate the 240V circuit unless you install a 9 pole switch to allow for both voltages. That would be exactly the same as using the 30A RV outlet on the 46540 model and the home-made 4 plug box.

I bought my 46535 at Checker Auto in AZ. They had the 46540 RV model on display and refurbished 46535's in boxes. I bought the refurbished 46535 at a substantially lower price. It only had a 90 day warranty, but I intended to cut the frame up and rewire it, so the warranty didn't matter to me.