3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

cmg3500 wrote:
I have my generator set up where it can hook up to my house.all my 120v circuit breakers are an a sub panel on a 60 amp double pole breaker,feeding from the outdoor panel that has all ov my 240 volt breakers.I have a transfer switch to make the 110 volt panel hot from the gen.
The question I have is,the neutral,& ground wires in this panel are bonded together,& hook into the outdoor panel,then to the ground rod,& the ground cable from regular power.
I was reading about NOT hooking the neutral & ground together at the generator.Is it any problem that the neutral,& ground are bonded together in the panel?It does go to an earth ground.I've used it like this for years,even for 10 days after hurricane Katrina with out any problems.
Is it safe to keep it like this?
Thanks
CMG

NO problem , you are find. that is the way the ground is supposed to be setup

people create safety problems when they bond the neutral and frame of the portable generator together and the generator is NOT permanently bonded to a PHYSICAL earth ground,

they think they are grounding the generator they confuse the words BOND & ground

[toprudder]

Mr. Tommy wrote:
To you guys talking about the ground rod...

For what it's worth, I've never used any sort of grounding when boondocking. I just start the generator up and let the A/C do its thing. Also, when I check our coaches outlets with a plug tester, everything is fine. Plus, pounding a ground rod into rock hard earth here in Nevada in the summer is almost impossible, and if you did manage to do it, you'd have to leave it there when you left, because getting it back out would be impossible ;).

I have to agree about using a ground rod. If the generator is "floating" then there would be no return path for any type of shock hazard to occur, as long as you do not touch a hot wire AND neutral at the same time. This would be similar to using an isolation transformer.

However, I would want the neutral and ground connected together somewhere between the generator and distribution panel. In case there is a fault in an appliance with a three-prong plug, you would need that connection in order for any type of protective device to trigger, such as a circuit breaker or ground fault outlet. In motorhomes with built-in generators, I believe they have neutral and ground connected at the generator.

Bob R.

[JosephH1]

JosephH1 wrote:
I returned home from work Friday to find my new Champion C46540 sitting im my driveway. Upon opening it I found a lot of broken black plastic in the box. The air cleaner cover and the back cover on the control panel were broken. While I can see how the air box cover broke, I couldn't imagine how the back cover on the control panel broke. So I took a close look at the unit, and I discovered that the mount closest to the oil drain was bent to the point it contacted and chipped the engine case below the drain plug. Do you think this damage warrants a return of the unit or will it be OK to run? It will be a royal PIA to return as I do not have any retailers in my area and it was a Parts America purchase. Since the box and frame were in perfect condition, I think this had to be damaged during assembly.

Well I came to my senses and called Champion. I can return it to any Advance Auto Parts store in my area and they will ship me a new one. This is more than fair. It is strange that I cannot purchase one there. Now that I think of it, I looked but there were no "L" brackets to remove. It must have been dumped on the corner where the motor mount is bent. Quite an impact!

[Mr__Tommy]

To you guys talking about the ground rod...

For what it's worth, I've never used any sort of grounding when boondocking. I just start the generator up and let the A/C do its thing. Also, when I check our coaches outlets with a plug tester, everything is fine. Plus, pounding a ground rod into rock hard earth here in Nevada in the summer is almost impossible, and if you did manage to do it, you'd have to leave it there when you left, because getting it back out would be impossible ;).

[bobandcat]

Katdaddy wrote:
I finally bought a db meter and checked the noise level on my Elm3000. At 7 meters it is 90db. A little more than advertised. I always thought this thing sounded a tad loud. I really have to try and find a way to quiet this thing down. PS- I took readings from 3 sides and all were the same. Short of shelling out the bucks for a Honda, any ideas?

See Professor95's post dated 1/22/07 for his sound reduction chamber. Its quite elaborate with lots of good ideas. He also has a link to many pictures of its construction.

[Oldfordman]

cmg3500 wrote:
Someone correct me if I am wrong.But if you were to connect the Generator frame to a 8 foot ground rod in the ground,so it would be grounded like the electric service panel ground,that should make it OK to bond the neutral & ground together at the generator,right????



I know it would be a PITA to drive a 8ft ground rod everywhere you go,but if someone was gonna leave the genny stationary,like for home backup power it could be feasible.

When you hook the genset to your house power panel, using a hot, neutral, and ground, the whole setup is now grounded through the panel where the common is also grounded. The only time you will not have an earth ground is when you are boondocking. This is when you might NEED that ground rod.

[cmg3500]

Someone correct me if I am wrong.But if you were to connect the Generator frame to a 8 foot ground rod in the ground,so it would be grounded like the electric service panel ground,that should make it OK to bond the neutral & ground together at the generator,right????



I know it would be a PITA to drive a 8ft ground rod everywhere you go,but if someone was gonna leave the genny stationary,like for home backup power it could be feasible.

[JosephH1]

I returned home from work Friday to find my new Champion C46540 sitting im my driveway. Upon opening it I found a lot of broken black plastic in the box. The air cleaner cover and the back cover on the control panel were broken. While I can see how the air box cover broke, I couldn't imagine how the back cover on the control panel broke. So I took a close look at the unit, and I discovered that the mount closest to the oil drain was bent to the point it contacted and chipped the engine case below the drain plug. Do you think this damage warrants a return of the unit or will it be OK to run? It will be a royal PIA to return as I do not have any retailers in my area and it was a Parts America purchase. Since the box and frame were in perfect condition, I think this had to be damaged during assembly.

[Katdaddy]

I finally bought a db meter and checked the noise level on my Elm3000. At 7 meters it is 90db. A little more than advertised. I always thought this thing sounded a tad loud. I really have to try and find a way to quiet this thing down. PS- I took readings from 3 sides and all were the same. Short of shelling out the bucks for a Honda, any ideas?

[cmg3500]

I have my generator set up where it can hook up to my house.all my 120v circuit breakers are an a sub panel on a 60 amp double pole breaker,feeding from the outdoor panel that has all ov my 240 volt breakers.I have a transfer switch to make the 110 volt panel hot from the gen.
The question I have is,the neutral,& ground wires in this panel are bonded together,& hook into the outdoor panel,then to the ground rod,& the ground cable from regular power.
I was reading about NOT hooking the neutral & ground together at the generator.Is it any problem that the neutral,& ground are bonded together in the panel?It does go to an earth ground.I've used it like this for years,even for 10 days after hurricaine Katrina with out any problems.
Is it safe to keep it like this?
Thanks
CMG

[MrWizard]

Elvis-N-Amy in Texas wrote:

Elvis-N-Amy in Texas wrote:
OldFordMan;
MrWizard.
Thank you.
I have a 15A to 20 A adaptor I will try this afternoon. If everything in the RV is "Happy" I will fab in a 20 Amp outlet and then finish it's break in.

If there is information for this genset in this thread; shoot me a link. I do have a scope I can put on the genset to see how "dirty" it is. I assume all non inverter gen sets are a tad noisy

BTW; as was posted earlier; it was only about 1\2 full of oil; and would not start.

As always; a big thanx.

An odd observation.

I used a 15 to 20 Amp adaptor to test this genset. If seemed to run my 15K AC AND microwave with no issues. (Run voltage was staying at 125 VAC)
I swapped the dual 15 amp plug for a single 20 amp. I connected the two legs in the same manner and took the extra step to replace the wire at the junction box under the dust cover from 14 gauge to 10 gauge.

Now the Micro will not start but the AC does.
Measuring from hot to neutral = 125 VAC, Neutral to ground 60 VAC; ground to hot = 65 VAC

So; I have seen a post concerning this earlier on a 1200 watt genset.

"neutral on the generator is not bonded to ground

when measuring AC voltage you will measure 120 from neutral to hot

and aprox 60 volts AC between neutral and ground OR hot and ground

this is normal for the generator

"
Is this normal? I assume these are 60 VAC windings but in phase.

Thanks as usual.

Elvis

it (1) 120v winding, it is not electrically/physically connected to the generator frame

you are dealing with magnetic fields & electrical "POTENTIAL" volts is the term used to describe 'electric potential' OR force/pressure

there a voltage potential/differential between the frame and wiring/windings induced by the magnetic field in the generator heat

think of it like the heat radiated from a hot engine block , air around the block is warm, but it won't burn you, stick your hand on the exhaust or block and get blistered

the 60 volts measured is like that radiated heat , it's not physically electrically connected to the genny head, your measuring more magnetic induced potential than real power, if you were to accidentally touch the either the hot or neutral while touching the FRAME, you would likely receive little or NO shock,

that's why you do NOT bond the frame of the genny to the neutral, IF you did that, the voltage would be a real 120v between the hot & the genny frame, a lethal situation if the portable tool/light/etc shorts out and you touch the genny frame, bam bad shock or death

[cmg3500]

I have a WEN Power Pro 3500,I bought from Pep boys about a year or so ago.It would be really nice if it had a cast iron cylinder sleeve.As soon as I get a chance,I will drop a small magnet on a string through the spark plug hole,& see if it tries to "stick" to the cylinder lining.As soon as I do ,I will post back with my results.
CMG

[Elvis-N-Amy_in_]

Elvis-N-Amy in Texas wrote:
OldFordMan;
MrWizard.
Thank you.
I have a 15A to 20 A adaptor I will try this afternoon. If everything in the RV is "Happy" I will fab in a 20 Amp outlet and then finish it's break in.

If there is information for this genset in this thread; shoot me a link. I do have a scope I can put on the genset to see how "dirty" it is. I assume all non inverter gen sets are a tad noisy

BTW; as was posted earlier; it was only about 1\2 full of oil; and would not start.

As always; a big thanx.

An odd observation.

I used a 15 to 20 Amp adaptor to test this genset. If seemed to run my 15K AC AND microwave with no issues. (Run voltage was staying at 125 VAC)
I swapped the dual 15 amp plug for a single 20 amp. I connected the two legs in the same manner and took the extra step to replace the wire at the junction box under the dust cover from 14 gauge to 10 gauge.

Now the Micro will not start but the AC does.
Measuring from hot to neutral = 125 VAC, Neutral to ground 60 VAC; ground to hot = 65 VAC

So; I have seen a post concerning this earlier on a 1200 watt genset.

"neutral on the generator is not bonded to ground

when measuring AC voltage you will measure 120 from neutral to hot

and aprox 60 volts AC between neutral and ground OR hot and ground

this is normal for the generator

"
Is this normal? I assume these are 60 VAC windings but in phase.

Thanks as usual.

Elvis

[Mike_R_]

P.J wrote:
Jay, that's not it. Here is the main one that is being discussed:
http://www.cpeauto.com/de3500RV_gen.htm

Nice wheel kit, that one is on the Champion website too.

I seen that generator on sale at Murrays auto parts for $299, sale is until the end of the month.

[bobandcat]

I also have the 46535 Champion that I have rewired for full current draw on the 120 v circuit. I eliminated the 240 v circuit since I didn't have any need for it. If you want both, you need to install a switch like the 46540 model.

It has no problem running both my 15k AC unit and my microwave at the same time. I have measured the current draw for both to be 23 amps on my Montana. Just remember to run your refrigerator and hot water tank on GAS when you are using your generator. If you forget, your genset will protest the overload!